Comrade Mduduzi, I think that the problem in this discussion is entangling the whole host of issues that are different (even though related) in to one single debate. The first point is that there are serious challenges in the ANC, there are various complaints which as members of the ANC we have raised about how certain structures that are percieved to be supporting a particular leader have been treated by the respective leadership in different structures, I can mention to you that the ANC Eastern Cape Congress last year was one example where the branches that were viewed to be supporting Mcebisi Jonase and thefore comrade President Zuma were dealt with by the then leadership that was supporting Stone Sizani and therefore Comrade Thabo Mbeki as President. The complaints of the various branches from the emahlathini sub region are sitting at Luthuli House since then. So yes indeed there are challenges in the ANC and there are many others which you know of, but this is one but a seperate debate. The issue of Terror Lekota, Mluleki Goerge, Mbazima Shilowa and the likes is a different issue and must be debated as such. The moment you want to legitimise the issues raised by these individuals in the context of the genuine challenges within the ANC, you are clouding your debate and therefore your analysis and conclusions wuold also be clouded and thus unable to arrive at a particluar logical conclusion coming from a sober and proper diagnosis of a particular reality. Whilst these issues are different but interelated, they should not in totality be concluded as separate issues, they must be concluded in the context of their interlinkages. For an example, Every time DA raises issues purporting to be genuine questions about how our society should be shaped every body including you jump up and dismiss them, we dismiss them becaiuse we question their qualifications (not academic this time) to raise those issues, we say you presided over a period of over thirty years of the issues you are raising and they never seem to bother you, amid various calls by various pregressive forces to do just the oppisite. I cannot see How and why must Lekota and the ilk be treated differently. One example, today Mbazima is telling the South African public that the electoral system we are currentling using in South Africa should be reviewed, where the President is elected by the majority party in parliament and consider the american system, a system that Mbhazima was violently rejecting not even a year ago at the time he was a beneficiary of. Let us utilise the platform to debate real challenges of the ANC and ponder various possibilities of solutions and make sure that the ANC becomes the stronger ANC that build capacity of South Africans to take a responsible charge of thier lives to the better.
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 12:18:30 +0200From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [YCLSA Discussion] Denialism,Denialism and illdiscipline I cannot agree with you, comrade Senzo. Maybe I can If you can clarify me on the following: Who started insulting senior leadership in 2005 - do you have substantial proof? Why do you advice JZ not to accept a public debate? Do you think JZ cannot stand a debate with TM? What do you mean when you say "a liberation movement without a name and now without leadership? Was Polokwane (which elected the leadership) a factional conference and not constituted by legitimate branches of the ANC? These three questions, if answered correctly, can give a full meaning of your input. However I need to agree with you on the following: There is a crisis in the ANC, it is evident when members of the organization pack a hall for the preparation of "Terror's" National convention to be held on the 2nd of November 2008. The Terror situation is qualitatively and quantitatively distinct from that of both Sobukwe and Holomisa. There time is different so are the feelings and attitudes of people (in particular members of the ANC - disgruntled or not). Some NEC members are using a language that is un-ANC and insultive in nature. This has the capacity of setting a tone that cannot be reversed forever. It si TM's right to challenge any legal inferences made on Him in a court of law - This is one of the values of constitutional democracy. It is a subjective matter that should not be brought into organizational matters. Social ills like character assassination are how comrades conduct their day to day engagements. I do no agree with you that TM has infected people with denialism. He never denied anything (go through the HIV/AIDS, Zimbabwe and other issues) unless otherwise you have an information separate from the one I have. Even if (according to you) he did deny some facts, the current denial is over-exacerbated. No-one is blind to an extent that he/she cannot see how positive people view the Terror initiative, one need not be a rocket scientist to be able to see that. This gesture of attendance to the Lekota initiative is a clear indication that there is a problem in the ANC and some members are unhappy. I think questioning someone's credentials is another way of sparking issues. Whether the issues are of substance or not depend on individual judgement. No one should have a monopoly of wisdom on judging merits and demerits of issues raised by comrades. If an issue is not appealing to comrades, comrades should refrain from entertaining such or call order if one has diverted from the principles of robust engagements. There cannot be an era of blindly agreeing with leadership, if deemed ill-disciplined, disciplinary structures established as per the constitution should do its task. Members are the determinants of the path to which an organization should go, thus should be able to oversee the activities of the leadership - this is what we call vigilance. Should members miss vigilance, the leadership might alter the path that members elected them to travel. Hence congress resolves and leadership from all levels facilitate while members implement. This message and any attachments relating to official business of the Mpumalanga Provincial Government (MPG) is proprietary to the MPG and intended for the original addressee only. The message may contain information that is confidential and subject to legal privilege. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender. If you receive this message in error, please notify the original sender immediately and destroy the original message. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you are hereby notified that you must not disseminate, copy, use, distribute, or take any action in connection therewith. The MPG cannot insure that the integrity of this communication has been maintained, nor that it is free of errors, viruses, interception and / or interference. The MPG is not liable whatsoever for loss or damage resulting from the opening of this message and / or attachments and / or the use of the information contained in this message and / or attachments. _________________________________________________________________ Join the all-new Windows Live Messenger family http://get.live.com --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You are subscribed. This footer can help you. Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to this message. You can visit the group WEB SITE at http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery options, pages, files and membership. To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email [EMAIL PROTECTED] . You don't have to put anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to put anything in the message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail to this address (repeat): [EMAIL PROTECTED] . -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
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