Comrade I am greatfull for your reply to the matter but I thinlk that with my limited information, I will also try to correct some of the things you mentioning so that we can have a sound debate if necessary. I didnt wish to write an essay but we cant affor miseducation. It is good that we need to clarify the different sphere's of government but the argument still remains, who is allocating money to all those spheres? It all comes from the national treasury and he then divides it accordingly to all spheres of government. This means if he has allocated minimum resources for infrastructure roll out, there is nothing that the other sphere can do than to charge the consumer and what that mean is that water or electricity is seen as a commodity rather than a fundamental human need. We must not forget our history and background when we engage in such debates because some of us don't fall into the school of "lets forgive and forget" as many would like us to believe that the TRC cleansed all the past. Let me remind you that there are banks & companies that benefited huge profits from apartheid yet they have never paid for their sins while many of our brothers and sisters died for the liberation of this country. Our constitution clearly states that every citizens has the rights and most of these rights are provided under Chapter 2: Bill of rights. It speaks volume of what needs to be done in terms of securing socio-economic rights but also providing us with dignity. We are under economic apartheid in this country if you are not aware chief, at first black people had to be humiliated by the whites with discriminatory laws (land act of 1913, immorality law etc) and now the country is discriminating against the poor (indigent policy). This strips people of their dignity to go and apply to your municipal that you are poor and you need assistance. I think you are aware of the protocols that our people have to follow in applying for this progressive policy you seem to be in favour of. Anyway who determines that people are entitled to so much (electricity or water) because they can't afford to pay for those services?? So now you of the rational that poor people don't know how much water or electricity they need and it is the municipal that can make those choices for the poor. I wonder how much are you in touch with the ground when you speak about public hearing and consultation of the people? Let's look at the matter of Phiri residents and ask people who live there what is the meaning of consultation. I don't like it when people speak of a concluded process taken to the people for rubber stamping. But for your benefit, consultation is both ways, and make time to visit the City of Johannesburg to find out how many petitions, memorandums and sit-in meetings the people of Phiri has sent to their attention. None were considered because of many reasons that are known to the powers above and one that I know is that our government is a member of the WTO (General Agreement Trade and Service). What role did Suez Lyonnais play in the roll out water pre-paid meters in Phiri in 2003 and what role did Conlog play in the roll out of water pre-paid meters in KZN? Who recommended that 6000l of free water must be provided to everyone in the country and not only those who are on indigent policy? What did the White Paper on Municipal Services Act on RDP in 1994 before it became a law in 1999 say my brother? I can never agree with you that priority is the indigent people and yet you fail to provide us with clear stats when it comes to who is regarded as indigent in this country. When we speak of infrastructure roll out, we speak of place that has no infrastructure at all and those that have a dilapidated infrastructure. Is that the case with Phiri and many other Soweto townships? The government is aware that much water is lost because of poor infrastructure and that it needs to be repaired, so who is against that wonderful idea? But the trick is that it is repaired because of the water pre-paid meters roll out and this is quite similar with the electricity pre-paid meters roll out. These service providers (Johannesburg Water & ESKOM-municipality owned entities) are improving service levels where it is better (urban areas); I agree that we want people who are on service level number 3 to be taken up to service level number 1 & 2. But this is not the case with Phiri residents who were not given the right to choose their own service level. In informal settlements and rural areas, can we speak of services level? For me service delivery it is about priority and sustainability when it comes to the poor. The national level of free electricity is 50 Kwh per household per month and can you really clarify to the people what they can use for 50kWHof free electricity per month per household for? Maybe I am not great full but you can really say that is something we have to celebrate chief. That amount of free electricity can keep a small bar fridge running for the entire month if it is switched on 24 hours and 31 days. That means no electricity for boiling water and cooking food or even switching on a heater in freezing temperatures. Those municipalities that are giving 100 kWH electricity for free, didn't just wake up and decided to do so but it was pressure from labour movements like SAMWU side by side with Social Movements. Don't come and give us half baked potato salad without adding the green beans. Let's look at the famous rhetoric statement that is used in every election campaign by political organisations contesting for power: The government is the people and the people are the government. Why mention such statements when you know that they are meaningless yet you have the decency to say "I am presenting my point to say this are the unintended consequences of our own laws". If it is the government of the people by the people, to an uneducated man like me that simply means that the people are the law makers. We can make laws that bite us and benefit big business unless we have vested interest in big business. The judgment simply says that 50l per person per household per month as a minimum whether you stay in rural or urban areas and the government must provide for this service. It there is no infrastructure, then priority must be infrastructure not credit management control that is discriminatory against the poor. If you going to give water for credit to the rich and affluent former white suburbs, then do the same to the former black poor townships (non racial, non discriminatory, non sexist government). Or maybe the Joburg municipality is acknowledging that Soweto is the home of the poor and they must be on the indigent policy. But to make matters worse is that the municipality is not efficient because all those who have registered (more or less 500 000) for the indigent policy are not benefitting. It is a pity that you speak of progressive cross subsidy for basic services yet again you fail to recognize the struggle that was waged by the poor themselves. I don't remember any political organisation doing research into the pricing structures within different townships and suburbs except the Anti Privatisation Forum (APF) and likeminded organisations like SAMWU. It was true that people in Soweto subsidies suburbs like Sandton where the rich live (I hope you stay in a township chief because I feel it). What happened to the money that ESKOM employees pocketed for estimations in black townships around the country chief since 1994 and beyond? This is one of the reasons that sparked the rent boycotts under apartheid where the black townships were subsiding white suburbs and yet they got poor substandard services. It linked to the people that we must cripple this apartheid system by rejecting sub-standard services and overthrowing a divisive system against the poor black majority. Why don't you also paint a picture for us about the Lesotho Highlands Dam project chief and stop distorting history to win accolades from your followers rather than put the truth before the people so that they can be their own judges. What has happened to the Lesotho people who forcefully removed so that they could make way for the project? Why is it that the ANC in 1986 refused the National Party government to go ahead with the Lesotho Highlands project? But in 1994 when sanctions were lifted, Ronnie Kasrils pushed for this deal and project. Disclose to the people that companies and officials were arrested for fraud and corruption around the Katse Dam Project. What is the role of Rand water in Ghana? If you claim that the State (ANC government) doesn't own the agencies but are shareholders to enable that the price remain as low as possible. There is something you not telling the people and I would like you to come out in the open. What are the untested grounds of cholera in the country? The UNICEF doctor gave his report about rural water in the country yesterday and I think that you were watching the news yesterday (17 February 2009). He stated clearly why our people in Mpumalanga and Limpopo are contracting cholera. It is not because of the water from neighboring countries but it is our own poor water management and monitoring mechanism. Roll out infrastructure to the rural areas so that our people can be able to boil their water chief. Our situation can no longer be measure in terms of currency but it is in terms of human survival. It is people who die everyday in this country from curable diseases and this should be avoided at all costs. Don't start that lazy argument of comparing us to the worse countries in the world but rather argue for a speedily basic service delivery. I rather not board Gautrain and let my fellow countrymen have access to clean and drinkable water. Beside, how will you tell if you are providing such services if you cannot measure that. I wonder how did Joburg manage to measure that they are losing billions of liters of water per month because Soweto infrastructure is leaking. There is no way that Jo'burg could go public and claim we are providing free basic water and when we ask where can we measure such and not able to get a an answer. I don't understand you chief when you say that the Judge who declared prepaid meters illegal was drunk because Science tells that tomorrow another group of Citizen could claim we are not provided with services due to the fact that there are no measurements. To put this matter into perspective, the government is claiming that it is providing 6000l of free water to every household in the country and how do they measure that my chief??? Then there are those residents who claim that they are not getting the free 6000l of water because they pay the same water bill every month yet they have conventional meters. The city can't implement a discriminatory policy or measure in-order to give out information based on MIG no matter how progressive it might be chief. Let it register all the indigent people and put measures in place to make sure that it provides for all those people and then embark on that process without violating anyone's rights to access water. When you get people to certain service level, it is important that they have what we call administrative justice. Do you expect people to appeal to the meter to give them water when the 6000l is finished? Or I forgot, hence you argue for operation 'gcina amanzi no matter the health consequences (just recall to what happened in KZN when there was the rise of cholera due the self-cut mechanism of water pre-paid meters). How much money is spend by the people of this country in buying candles and paraffin annually (more than R6 billion) yet that money can be used for renewable safe energy. Fundis like you are always narrow minded when it comes to people's socio-economic rights because you didn't struggle to be poor. Argue for the privatisation of basic services so that the state or its agencies can't collapse and give profit to the "efficient" private companies. Who is giving the stimulus package today to resurrect the open free markets? Maybe I don't understand where is the "rescue package plan" coming from, is it some profits from a private company or is it poor working class tax-payers money? Why refuse the government to use tax-payers money for running such services yet when there is a crisis, it is everyone that must pull together. What happened to the REDDS 1 programme in Cape Town- did the private sector bring in the necessary capital or is it the state? Whether you are not prepared to cross subsidies big-business to make money from water & electricity, the government will help them through you taxes like it or not. Even if my arguments are simplistic they are answers to your questions
Hence this Cholera issue is unfounded and could not be used to justify the point here in actual fact is out of context. I hardly buy bottled water for drinking and drink from the tap like most of my Villagers people does and there is no Cholera. What I find very problematic in this piece of document is the fact that there is no mentioning of what people from Rural area are exposed to when they could spend a week without water from the tap which is the main cause of Cholera not running water which people in cities enjoy. Hence my point is that we should give our government space to implement its Infrastructure rollout programme and then evaluate. Don't be quick to dismiss but make sure that you understand policy and practice so that we may not compromise because we love the organisation more than the people. The people are the policies of the organisation and the organisation is the policy of the people. One without the other is like a king without a thrown and people. On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 2:04 PM, Nndwamato Mutshidza <[email protected]> wrote: > > I think we need to provide clarity here such that people should understand > the functioning of the sphere of Governance (national, Provincial and Local). > You see comrades it is within the constitutional provision for supply of > basic services. However Municipalities are required to develop the indigent > policies on how this basic services should accessed. In this process public > hearing and held before the Bylaws are passed. It is important to provide > this background such that we could not just send wrong aspersion that we are > making empty promises relating to basic services. One of the pillar of our > priority is the rollout of Infrastructure services relating to Water, Energy, > Transport and Logistics to ensure that this services are provided to the > correct people (Indigent). You see the principle which the ANC accept is that > among us there are people who are supposed to pay for this services and there > are those that should enjoy the Free Services (Water, Electricity, etc). For > example at national level the policy talks to provision of 50KWh per months > as free basic electricity (Minimum Standard) but the Local Sphere depending > on its capacity may elect to increase just like what City of Tshwane did and > increase to 100KWh per month. This was done through their own Indigent policy. > > The same analogy, tell me that the City of Jo'burg has an Indigent Policy > which states the level of intervention it ought to provide to its own > citizen. The issue here is that this are Local government Jurisdiction areas > and these services could only be provided by the Local Government or an > Agency through an Executive Decision of Council. The Local Government System > Act make such a requirement (Law) not of the ANC but of the Country and in > the process to the development of such laws we are all encourage to make > submissions. I am presenting my point to say this are the unintended > consequences of our own laws. What you see happening is Electricity is that > it cannot be stored and water can be but unfortunately, people in the > development of their areas Indigent policies are not taking into account the > size of a Family Household, which differ from Peri-Urban, Urban, Township and > Rural Areas. Because what the Judgement fails to clarify is whether 50 litre > is enough for a Household of Seven people of for two people? To me the issue > is not the magnitude of the water to be distributed, it is the potential risk > of trying to apply a one size fit all approach when providing this > service.The question is why Tshwane on Electricity provided a differentiated > approach? Why Jo'burg cannot develop its own policy that recognise the vast > difference in culture across its own area of supply? > > After painting such a background I think I could also present that the road > towards a better life for all could not be easier one. The infrastructure to > ensure that those services are provided is not there. We highly depend on the > Lesotho Highland dam for the Supply and only the State facilitate such > Transaction in which uMgeni Waters, Jo'burg Water and other Bulk Supplier of > Water could trade and sell this water to our Local Sphere. The process which > I am presenting is that we( ANC) or State does not own any of this Agencies > but are Shareholders to enable that the price remain as low as possible. The > other realisation and not based on untested propaganda for Cholera is that we > proud that in this country you could move to a tap and got drinkable water > which is the opposite in most Developing and other Industrialised Countries. > My take being that the answer to provide such service is not as easier is > done. Beside, how will you tell if you are providing such services if you > cannot measure that. There is no way that Jo'burg could go public and claim > we are providing free basic water and when we ask where can we measure such > and not able to get a an answer. The Judge who declare prepaid meters > illegal was drunk and Science tell that tomorrow another group of Citizen > could claim we are not provided with services due to the fact that there are > no measurements. Beside Jo'burg should report on how it uses it Municipal > Infrastructure Grant (MIG) allocation relating to Bulk Services and that > accounted in terms of quantity delivered and the cost it has costed to > deliver and what revenue was collected to affording and what was used for > Indigent and at What Cross-Subsidy level was that done? It is this same > reasons we are providing that the City of Jo'burg has to explore before > implementing and are these reason that led them to challenge the court ruling. > > The point relating to Privatisation, is an ideological on its own and we > could engage until relating to the path South Africa took to avoid a total > collapse of the State and its own Agencies. I think it was correct to > partially privatise in order to raise Capital from Offshore Markets but keep > the State intervention on course using the Shareholding Compact with these > Agencies. I would like you to tell us how do you suggest the State to get > Water from Lesotho, Inga (DRC) without laying Pipelines that requires massive > capital Injection and at the same time fight with other pillars of Poverty? I > would further like to be clarified as to who should pay for these services? > The Tax Payers or the users of the Services? What Government interventions > measures should be employed towards Indigent Citizens? I am possing these > questions to illustrate the complexity of arriving at the simple solution > which is not open for challenge by others. I am not prepared to pay for water > to be used by Eskom in its own Generation Business but I am prepared to pay > for Electricity price that recognise the Cost of Primary Energy. I am not > prepared to pay for water used elsewhere but for the water I used and then > the price if its high, should cross-subsidise the Indigent. The approach you > raise here assume that all of us should pay for the services even if we do > not have such services through Tax, which in unacceptable. > Hence this Cholera issue is unfounded and could not be used to justify the > point here in actual fact is out of context. I hardly buy bottled water for > drinking and drink from the tap like most of my Villagers people does and > there is no Cholera. What I find very problematic in this piece of document > is the fact that there is no mentioning of what people from Rural area are > exposed to when they could spend a week without water from the tap which is > the main cause of Cholera not running water which people in cities enjoy. > Hence my point is that we should give our government space to implement its > Infrastructure rollout programme and then evaluate. > > After my own analogy, I do not think we should want to enter into a debate > that seeks to assume that our own ANC promise for FBE, FBAE and FWater is > correct. The ANC in the process leading to the development of our Manifesto, > which what we are promising people was based on what people said we should > prioritise and as such, Water Access, we have reached 88% and Electricity 80% > and in terms of Access to free portion of this services we are 60%. Hence you > could not see them being major priority. What is our priority is to Guarantee > Supply of these services. Hence in doing so we should embark on the rollout > of Infrastructure to enable us to provide Qualitative services. Hence this > campaign should be directed at the respective Local Government Sphere > (Jo'burg) and not elevated to national Status. Because Nationally the Stats > could tell you that we are progressing well. > An Agenda that seeks to divert our immediate task of ensuring a decisive > Victory is mislocated. > > I remain, > > -- > This message is subject to the CSIR's copyright terms and conditions, e-mail > legal notice, and implemented Open Document Format (ODF) standard. > The full disclaimer details can be found at > http://www.csir.co.za/disclaimer.html. > > This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by > MailScanner, > and is believed to be clean. MailScanner thanks Transtec Computers for their > support. > > > > > -- Silumko Khethokuhle Einstein Radebe Mabona Anti Privatisation Forum- South Africa 123 Corner Pritchard and Mooi Street, 06th Floor House of Movement Johannesburg 2001 Tel: 011333 8334 Fax:011333 8335 Cell:+2772 1737 268 e-mail: [email protected] or [email protected] or [email protected] --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You are subscribed. 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