The NDR is problematic Cde because it brings different competing iterests together, the capitalist, workers nationalist etc. It is important to remember that in any class society the dominat ideas are the ideas of the ruling class, and in this case the ruling class are the capitalist class. NDR suggest that working class should first take over the capitalistic state institutions and then use them to bring about socialism. For me its the opposite. The working class need to take over the means of production and then transform the society including dismatling of the state institutions such as parliament. Since the power is not in parliament or in courts or cabinet etc but with the capitalist in their board in the work place and i suggest this is where the struggle have to happen. Parlaiment for example makes laws but if these laws go against the aspirations of the capitalistic class they end up only in the paper. This does not mean that all the laws we have are advancing capitalism, but in the greater scheme of things the ruling class benefits from capitalist democracy like ours and very little benefits for the working class and the poor. So what is it that we are consolidating, is it taking over institutions that are in service of capital? Or should we be concerned about taking over the means of production and then transform society according the needs of the working class majority? Tell me Cde how the NDR is dealing with the taking over of means of production, which are the basis for the struggle and not the parliament or courts or church etc. The only way to socialism is through the working class struggles. No matter how many communist we can have in government - which is capitalsit in nature - it does not matter workers will still sufer and the rich will prosper as it is the case not just in SA but in other countries such as China. When making our arguments we should always ask ourselves who benefits and who suffers, and not just end there, we also need to quatify these benefits as we are not just talking about crumbs as it has been the case up to now. > From: [email protected] > Subject: [YCLSA Discussion] Re: the NP govt was more socialist than the ANC > govt. > To: [email protected] > Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 13:04:46 +0200 > > > > Cde Thabang > > You close your very interesting joinder to the discussion > with a statement that says "The working class have to first > take over state power and it will be only then that it can > transform society according to the needs of the working > class - the majority." Does this mean that the NDR is not > capable or is not a route for the transformation of society > in the interests of the majorithy. > > Before the presupposed seizure of power by the working > class beside building its organizations what does the > working class do in terms of its day to day struggle? If > the struggle of the working class, in terms of the MTV of > the SACP is to occupy hegemony in all centres of power, > does nationalization not ring any ring any thing in > relation to this intention? > > I must concede as indicated by cde Gopane that there are a > mamoth number of challenges faced by the SOE's currently; > but these have been run according to the capitalist logic. > many of them enjoy a level of privatization whose intent > was solely to log investors and create BEE deals, there was > no focus on empowering the workers in terms of decision > making and control. This are the issues we need to correct > going forward, this all relate to process issues rather > than nullify the case for nationalization (with a strong > emphasis on socialization which is an issue of content and > form). > > We are in a rare political space globally today in that > contrary to ten years ago there is less antagonism for > progressive states amongst others to intervene decissively > in the economy, the question is how? We have political > authority or power in the hands of our progressive > formations what are the options at our disposal at this > conjencture? > > Mxolisi > > --- > Sent from UnionMail Service [http://mail.union.org.za] > > >
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