Cde, there's an intelligence tactic that is mostly used by Mossad called: FISHLINE HOOK AND SINKER...its creating confusion by employing apparently differing elements so as to appear having a moral high ground...what is happening now is that the SACP...through the individual self centred pronouncements of Jeremy Cronin..is loosing the political high ground and the initiative when its supposed to be in the command of all the processes... the problem started with cards...or election groups within the movement..or what is termed amakhasi...where individuals without clear mandates from their constituencies contest for electins whereas it is aganst the policy of the organisation to engage in such...what has transpired is to sheepishly ideolise comrades because they are the "heads" of those differing camp...that on on its own is revisionist and counter-revolutionary...what s happening now is an SACP that can't bear to discipline Jeremy Cronin in withdrawing his statements and a party that can't further bear to apologise to the YL on the way the issue has been handled and go on to further give guidance to the YL on how we should go about Nationalising mines...because in any event..mines are going to be nationalised but that shouldn't happen to the detriment of the SACP...There's no NDR without Nationalisation comrades...We lke it or not its going to happen...
what is worse now is that Mbalula...who we know to be having s own anti-patroitic..if not foreign agenda together with tokyo..are beginning to gain high ground because they've aligned themselves with progressive pronouncements..though they are inherently reactionary...The Party should wake up.. SACP...CALL JEREMY CRONIN INTO ORDER...FOR THE SAKE OF THE SACP...AND THE CLASS STRUGGLE... Xoli Dlabantu On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 9:18 AM, Nndwamato Mutshidza <[email protected]>wrote: > General, > > It seems its you who is suffering from what you assume our leaders are > suffering from. You naive inferences of assuming that only academia > should decide the path of revolution is anti-revolutionary in a South > African context. Maybe we should ask you, who are at the centre of > knowledge production? Is the West (Imperialist), what do they teach our > kids (Profit maximisation) or maybe the beuty and blossom of capitalism. > Does the school or the academia who have made you who you are not > encourage you to be the best no matter what other kids are going > through. > > Just by providing this apology, it expose you to sufferance of > ideological slavery you are suffering. You keep on wanting to reduce us > to discuss issue that do not matters. The economy General is what is at > the core of what path we take and if you are a Communist which I really > doubt unless we are after numbers as oppose to quality you might > understand the point of view we are raising here. > > I care less as to who becomes the SG in 2012 be it Mbaks or the > retaining of Gwede, what matters to me is the programme that we should > be pursuing as the Liberation Movement turns 100 years old. If you think > our aggressiveness is not helping assist us to see the alternative and > not insulting us. By the way we have the very same academic credentials > you think we do not and you need to understand that the process to > develop a position paper culminate from an ongoing research and only > those that understand the process will provide empirical evidence of the > case we are presenting. Therefore your assumptions that we the ANCYL are > a bunch on dumb or non-academia reminds me of the debate we have some > times ago after the launch of the Native Club as what constitute a > Native and what make one an Intellectual (Is it not subjective this > debate of labelling each other). > > You are correct this forum was never establish to replace our basic > unit (Cells, branches) of the vanguard but a platform to share views and > assist each other in ensuring that we sharpen our theoretical tools of > analysis. But its cdes like you General that reduces this forum to a > gossip column and we will refuse your indoctrination in this regards. > > General, assist us here "Why do Communist fear so much the > Nationalisation Programme as proposed by the ANCYL and think that what > the 12th Congress of SACP proposed is fine?" Why target SASOL and leave > other drivers of our Economy. SASOl whether Nationalised or not will > still had to procure Petroleum product on off-shore markets on a > Dollarised currency and that risk will have to be the tax payers risk > and when we want to do the same of Mining, cdes have some jitters, Why? > Who owns the Mines? Are the Banks not in charge through some financier > arrangement with BEE benefactor who produce and repay debts to Banks and > as such the nationalisation of Mines triggers the nationalisation of > Banks and other Commanding Heights of Economy. > > Please stop insulting us and deal with the issue we put in the table, > engage our Nationalisation paper and enrich it. This whats we expect > from Marxist/ Lennist/ Kotanist. > > Lets talk > >>> sipho shandu <[email protected]> 2010/02/08 03:56 PM >>> > Dear cadres, > > Let us not be reactionaries but let us revolutionary in all we write > and > utter. Floyd is Malema's "bedbug" and is out of line. Whatever juluis > utters, floyd will reiterate with full support. > > I joined the ANC because it was the party of integrity and I made it > my > home. A party of peace and respect. Here came these lumpens who want to > turn > things around with a whole lot of disrespect and hooliganism. > > Julius is the presidente of the ANCYL and floyd is just the league's > "blabbermouth" and both must attend to the matters which matter the > most to > youth. I do not undesrtand why Julius is discussing very complex > matters of > high academia when he knows that he does not have that caliber to > discuss > and deliberate at such a high mental state. > > This press statement is nonsense as it continues to devide us. Malema > and > his garden boys must catch a wake up call. > > I will not be in this forum for the wrong reasons. > > We have had this halabaloo where we witnessed a showdown in polokwane > and it > devided our party. I feel and honestly believe that we should refrain > from > being power mongers otherwise it will kill our party. > > Should anyone have a problem with my comment, please keep it to > yourself. > Let us come to this forum sober minded and ready to debate critical > issues > of national importance rather than post nonsensical opinions which > stand no > ground. > > Let me crocodile for now... > > Cadre General Shonalanga > > On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 8:23 PM, Dominic Tweedie > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > From: Nyiko Floyd Shivambu <[email protected]> > > Date: 4 February 2010 12:25 > > Subject: ANC YL Media RESPONSE TO NICKY OPPENHEIMER, JEREMY CRONIN > AND > > SUSAN SHABANGU ON THE NATIONALISATION OF MINES: > > To: anc-yl-media <[email protected]>, ancmedia < > > [email protected]> > > > > > > *RESPONSE TO NICKY OPPENHEIMER, JEREMY CRONIN AND SUSAN SHABANGU ON > THE > > NATIONALISATION OF MINES:* > > > > * * > > > > 04 February 2010 > > > > > > > > The African National Congress Youth League (ANC YL) has noted the > reaction > > of Nicky Oppenheimer, De Beers Chairperson to the misleading > statements of > > Minister of Minerals, Susan Shabangu that Mines will not be > nationalised in > > the Minister’s lifetime. We have also noted attempts to divert the > debate on > > Nationalisation by Jeremy Cronin, who once again, used the platform > of the > > South African Communist Party to express his views. We decided to > respond to > > Nicky, Susan and Jeremy together because their wish to retain the > status quo > > in terms of property relations is the same, the only slight > difference is > > that the other one uses sophisticated English to mislead our ally, > the SACP > > on its response to Nationalisation of Mines. > > > > > > > > *NICKY OPENHEIMER, SUSAN SHABANGU AND DE BEERS: * > > > > * * > > > > It is totally dishonest and criminal for Nicky Oppenheimer to say he > agrees > > with the misleading statements of Susan Shabangu that Mines will not > be > > nationalised in her lifetime. By saying Mines will not be > nationalised in > > her lifetime, Susan Shabangu Is referring to her lifetime as a > Minister of > > Minerals, because we doubt if she will be a Minister for that a very > long > > time. De Beers is a Mining partnership with the governments of > Botswana, > > Namibia and Canada, yet seems to be refusing that the people of South > Africa > > benefit from mining of diamond. De Beers is an inconsistent and > immoral, > > inhuman corporation, whose development and growth was at the expense > of many > > Africans’ innocent lives. De Beers super-exploited African > labourers through > > forced cheap labour and for many years sponsored the conquest of the > African > > majority by the white minorities. De Beers operated in South Africa > during > > apartheid and basically sponsored the murderous, destructive and > racist > > actions of the colonial/apartheid repressive regime. If there is ever > any > > corporation that has to be remorseful and understand that the people > of > > South Africa should share in the country’s wealth, it is De Beers. > > > > > > > > De Beers should not be misled by Susan Shabangu, but should begin to > design > > models of engagement with the State in the same manner they did in > Botswana, > > Namibia and Canada. In South Africa, De Beers should begin to adjust > to > > giving away 60% of its ownership and control of Mining, because that > is what > > is going to happen. De Beers should be leading other Mining > corporations in > > making them understand that Mining can happen even when the State has > a > > greater stake in the mining corporations, and stop listening to wrong > advice > > by the Minister of Minerals. > > > > > > > > We do not expect Nicky Oppenheimer to support Nationalisation because > he is > > protecting his ill-gotten wealth, currently worth billions of Rands, > which > > he inherited from his war mongering forefathers. Whilst not openly > > supporting Nationalisation, Patrice Motsepe has said in a > constructive > > manner that if it happens in the interest of South Africa, he would > support > > nationalisation. But a greedy, unethical capitalist, who stays in > London, > > does not care about the interest of South Africa. If Nicky > Oppenheimer > > thinks that he has a hold on the ANC through Minister Susan Shabangu, > then > > he is misled, because Susan Shabangu is not the ANC and does not > understand > > the ANC. > > > > > > > > *JEREMY CRONIN AND THE SACP* > > > > * * > > > > The ANC Youth League wants to place it on record that Jeremy Cronin > has on > > several occasions been given the opportunity to contribute into the > > discussion document on Nationalisation of Mines. He was specifically > asked > > to write a chapter in the document on how Nationalised Mines should > alter > > South Africa’s accumulation and growth path in order to address > the > > Minerals-energy-finance complex. As always, the only thing he could > do was > > make a false commitment that he will contribute, but chose not to. > In > > November 2009, Jeremy Cronin committed to make input and we are > still > > waiting for his input. He instead chose to use the platform of the > Communist > > Party to try and divert focus from the ANC Youth League’s call for > > Nationalisation and label it opportunistic and weak, primarily > because of a > > section which he was requested to make contributions on. > > > > > > > > The ANC Youth League is acutely aware that what are presented as > views of > > the SACP Politburo are personal, reactionary views of Jeremy Cronin > who > > forever succeeds in misleading the Communist Party. The SACP’s > support for > > Nationalisation is couched with lots of doubts and aspersions > intended as > > questioning the legitimacy of the ANC Youth League to raise the > debate. The > > Communist Party should intensely look within itself and ask the > relevant > > question of why is it that all the personal beliefs of one Jeremy > Cronin > > without failure become the views of the Communist Party. The ANC YL > is aware > > that the labels of “Kebble-ism”, “anti-communist” > > > > > > > > Jeremy Cronin is again re-committing the same mistake he committed > when he > > said our understanding of beneficiation is bling. Jeremy Cronin does > not > > read the official document of the ANC YL, but rushes to respond even > on > > issues that have already been addressed. This specifically relates to > the > > conceptual foundation of the document which unequivocally says that > > “nationalisation does not amount to bailing out of indebted > capitalists”. > > The entire question of South Africa’s State Owned Enterprises is > addressed > > in the discussion document, but as always, Jeremy Cronin ignores it > and > > instead chooses to raise false alarms on the whole debate. > > > > > > > > Why a Communist cadre in the form of Jeremy Cronin refuses to > > constructively input into the Nationalisation of Mines perspective > even when > > humbly requested to is worrying. But as they say, blood is thicker > than > > water. The ANC YL is neither grand-standing, nor threatening anyone. > > Inspired by the 1944 founding generation of the ANC, we will not > support any > > leader of the ANC who is opposed to our political programme. It would > be > > foolhardy for the Youth League to support leaders who are opposed to > our > > programme. > > > > > > > > We will continue to engage with the Communist Party and COSATU and > develop > > a proper programme moving forward. Nationalisation of Mines will > happen, and > > for Nicky Oppenheimer and Jeremy Cronin, we appreciate your > opposition > > because it makes us more determined. > > > > > > > > *Issued by the African National Congress Youth League * > > > > Contact Floyd Shivambu, ANC YL Spokesperson > > > > 0828199474 > > > > > > -- > > You are subscribed. This footer can help you. > > Please POST your comments to [email protected] or > reply to > > this message. > > You can visit the group WEB SITE at > > http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different > delivery > > options, pages, files and membership. > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email > [email protected]. You don't have to put > anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to > > put anything in the message part. All you have to do is to send an > e-mail to > > this address (repeat): [email protected] > . > > > > -- > You are subscribed. This footer can help you. > Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply > to this message. > You can visit the group WEB SITE at > http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery > options, pages, files and membership. > To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email > [email protected] . You don't have to put > anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to put anything in the > message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail to this address > (repeat): [email protected] . > > -- > This message is subject to the CSIR's copyright terms and conditions, > e-mail legal notice, and implemented Open Document Format (ODF) standard. > The full disclaimer details can be found at > http://www.csir.co.za/disclaimer.html. > > This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by > MailScanner, > and is believed to be clean. MailScanner thanks Transtec Computers for > their support. > > -- > You are subscribed. This footer can help you. > Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to > this message. > You can visit the group WEB SITE at > http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery > options, pages, files and membership. > To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email [email protected]. > You don't have to put anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to > put anything in the message part. 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