Comrade Zap Mphahlele, Thanks for the sentiments. We must lower the voice in our public engagements and lower our tempers when we debate comrades. We can still make our point without launching insults. The way we debate matters more than the point we raise.
Unathi HENAMA On Tue, 9 Feb 2010 08:01:23 +0200 "Khutjo Mphahlele" <[email protected]> wrote: > Comrade Thulani you are clear Mchana > > The utterances that were flying and calling comrades with > names and > insulting them it's really out of order. Macomrade if you > differ with other > comrades, regardless of which cabal or branch you are > from. we differ > always, but calling people the blabbermouth and all sorts > of things it's > really not good.. > > > > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > thulani kunene > Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 6:24 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [YCLSA Discussion] Fwd: ANC YL Media > RESPONSE TO NICKY > OPPENHEIMER, JEREMY CRONIN AND SUSAN SHABANGU ON THE > NATIONALISATION OF > MINES: > > > > > i am ashamed by the words that you are using when raising > your views my > comrade. > > > > what do you consider youth mattter?is mining not a youth > matter?who works at > the mines?is it not young people. > > > > whose parents work at the mines?is it not fathers and > mothers of the youth. > > > > so the ancyl is not out of order when raising matters of > the economy. > > > > to call comrade Floyd a 'blabbermouth' is out of order. > > > > are matters of the economy a preserve of the > educated?does it mean that > those who are not educated must remain silent and let the > educated discuss > matters that concern them directly!!! > > > > do we call comrades garden boys! > > > > i hope you crocodile forever and never post your comments > if you are going > to be insulting comrades instead of debating. > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 3:56 PM, sipho shandu > <[email protected]> wrote: > > Dear cadres, > > Let us not be reactionaries but let us revolutionary in > all we write and > utter. Floyd is Malema's "bedbug" and is out of line. > Whatever juluis > utters, floyd will reiterate with full support. > > I joined the ANC because it was the party of integrity > and I made it my > home. A party of peace and respect. Here came these > lumpens who want to turn > things around with a whole lot of disrespect and > hooliganism. > > Julius is the presidente of the ANCYL and floyd is just > the league's > "blabbermouth" and both must attend to the matters which > matter the most to > youth. I do not undesrtand why Julius is discussing very > complex matters of > high academia when he knows that he does not have that > caliber to discuss > and deliberate at such a high mental state. > > This press statement is nonsense as it continues to > devide us. Malema and > his garden boys must catch a wake up call. > > I will not be in this forum for the wrong reasons. > > We have had this halabaloo where we witnessed a showdown > in polokwane and it > devided our party. I feel and honestly believe that we > should refrain from > being power mongers otherwise it will kill our party. > > Should anyone have a problem with my comment, please keep > it to yourself. > Let us come to this forum sober minded and ready to > debate critical issues > of national importance rather than post nonsensical > opinions which stand no > ground. > > Let me crocodile for now... > > Cadre General Shonalanga > > > > On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 8:23 PM, Dominic Tweedie > <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Nyiko Floyd Shivambu <[email protected]> > Date: 4 February 2010 12:25 > Subject: ANC YL Media RESPONSE TO NICKY OPPENHEIMER, > JEREMY CRONIN AND SUSAN > SHABANGU ON THE NATIONALISATION OF MINES: > To: anc-yl-media <[email protected]>, > ancmedia > <[email protected]> > > > > RESPONSE TO NICKY OPPENHEIMER, JEREMY CRONIN AND SUSAN > SHABANGU ON THE > NATIONALISATION OF MINES: > > > > 04 February 2010 > > > > The African National Congress Youth League (ANC YL) has > noted the reaction > of Nicky Oppenheimer, De Beers Chairperson to the > misleading statements of > Minister of Minerals, Susan Shabangu that Mines will not > be nationalised in > the Minister's lifetime. We have also noted attempts to > divert the debate on > Nationalisation by Jeremy Cronin, who once again, used > the platform of the > South African Communist Party to express his views. We > decided to respond to > Nicky, Susan and Jeremy together because their wish to > retain the status quo > in terms of property relations is the same, the only > slight difference is > that the other one uses sophisticated English to mislead > our ally, the SACP > on its response to Nationalisation of Mines. > > > > NICKY OPENHEIMER, SUSAN SHABANGU AND DE BEERS: > > > > It is totally dishonest and criminal for Nicky > Oppenheimer to say he agrees > with the misleading statements of Susan Shabangu that > Mines will not be > nationalised in her lifetime. By saying Mines will not be > nationalised in > her lifetime, Susan Shabangu Is referring to her lifetime > as a Minister of > Minerals, because we doubt if she will be a Minister for > that a very long > time. De Beers is a Mining partnership with the > governments of Botswana, > Namibia and Canada, yet seems to be refusing that the > people of South Africa > benefit from mining of diamond. De Beers is an > inconsistent and immoral, > inhuman corporation, whose development and growth was at > the expense of many > Africans' innocent lives. De Beers super-exploited > African labourers through > forced cheap labour and for many years sponsored the > conquest of the African > majority by the white minorities. De Beers operated in > South Africa during > apartheid and basically sponsored the murderous, > destructive and racist > actions of the colonial/apartheid repressive regime. If > there is ever any > corporation that has to be remorseful and understand that > the people of > South Africa should share in the country's wealth, it is > De Beers. > > > > De Beers should not be misled by Susan Shabangu, but > should begin to design > models of engagement with the State in the same manner > they did in Botswana, > Namibia and Canada. In South Africa, De Beers should > begin to adjust to > giving away 60% of its ownership and control of Mining, > because that is what > is going to happen. De Beers should be leading other > Mining corporations in > making them understand that Mining can happen even when > the State has a > greater stake in the mining corporations, and stop > listening to wrong advice > by the Minister of Minerals. > > > > We do not expect Nicky Oppenheimer to support > Nationalisation because he is > protecting his ill-gotten wealth, currently worth > billions of Rands, which > he inherited from his war mongering forefathers. Whilst > not openly > supporting Nationalisation, Patrice Motsepe has said in a > constructive > manner that if it happens in the interest of South > Africa, he would support > nationalisation. But a greedy, unethical capitalist, who > stays in London, > does not care about the interest of South Africa. If > Nicky Oppenheimer > thinks that he has a hold on the ANC through Minister > Susan Shabangu, then > he is misled, because Susan Shabangu is not the ANC and > does not understand > the ANC. > > > > JEREMY CRONIN AND THE SACP > > > > The ANC Youth League wants to place it on record that > Jeremy Cronin has on > several occasions been given the opportunity to > contribute into the > discussion document on Nationalisation of Mines. He was > specifically asked > to write a chapter in the document on how Nationalised > Mines should alter > South Africa's accumulation and growth path in order to > address the > Minerals-energy-finance complex. As always, the only > thing he could do was > make a false commitment that he will contribute, but > chose not to. In > November 2009, Jeremy Cronin committed to make input and > we are still > waiting for his input. He instead chose to use the > platform of the Communist > Party to try and divert focus from the ANC Youth League's > call for > Nationalisation and label it opportunistic and weak, > primarily because of a > section which he was requested to make contributions on. > > > > The ANC Youth League is acutely aware that what are > presented as views of > the SACP Politburo are personal, reactionary views of > Jeremy Cronin who > forever succeeds in misleading the Communist Party. The > SACP's support for > Nationalisation is couched with lots of doubts and > aspersions intended as > questioning the legitimacy of the ANC Youth League to > raise the debate. The > Communist Party should intensely look within itself and > ask the relevant > question of why is it that all the personal beliefs of > one Jeremy Cronin > without failure become the views of the Communist Party. > The ANC YL is aware > that the labels of "Kebble-ism", "anti-communist" > > > > Jeremy Cronin is again re-committing the same mistake he > committed when he > said our understanding of beneficiation is bling. Jeremy > Cronin does not > read the official document of the ANC YL, but rushes to > respond even on > issues that have already been addressed. This > specifically relates to the > conceptual foundation of the document which unequivocally > says that > "nationalisation does not amount to bailing out of > indebted capitalists". > The entire question of South Africa's State Owned > Enterprises is addressed > in the discussion document, but as always, Jeremy Cronin > ignores it and > instead chooses to raise false alarms on the whole > debate. > > > > Why a Communist cadre in the form of Jeremy Cronin > refuses to constructively > input into the Nationalisation of Mines perspective even > when humbly > requested to is worrying. But as they say, blood is > thicker than water. The > ANC YL is neither grand-standing, nor threatening anyone. > Inspired by the > 1944 founding generation of the ANC, we will not support > any leader of the > ANC who is opposed to our political programme. It would > be foolhardy for the > Youth League to support leaders who are opposed to our > programme. > > > > We will continue to engage with the Communist Party and > COSATU and develop a > proper programme moving forward. Nationalisation of Mines > will happen, and > for Nicky Oppenheimer and Jeremy Cronin, we appreciate > your opposition > because it makes us more determined. > > > > Issued by the African National Congress Youth League > > Contact Floyd Shivambu, ANC YL Spokesperson > > 0828199474 > > > > -- > You are subscribed. This footer can help you. > Please POST your comments to > [email protected] or reply to > this message. > You can visit the group WEB SITE at > http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for > different delivery > options, pages, files and membership. > To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email > [email protected] . > You don't have to put anything in the "Subject:" field. > You don't have to > put anything in the message part. 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