Cde's' Bait the hook to suite the fish give the fish what it wants so as to have it next to you tie what you want to what I want That's FISH LINE HOOK AND SINKER...
BEWARE....MOSSAD DOESN'T MESS AROUND... On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 10:03 AM, Xoli Dlabantu <[email protected]> wrote: > Cde, > there's an intelligence tactic that is mostly used by Mossad called: > FISHLINE HOOK AND SINKER...its creating confusion by employing apparently > differing elements so as to appear having a moral high ground...what is > happening now is that the SACP...through the individual self centred > pronouncements of Jeremy Cronin..is loosing the political high ground and > the initiative when its supposed to be in the command of all the > processes... the problem started with cards...or election groups within the > movement..or what is termed amakhasi...where individuals without clear > mandates from their constituencies contest for electins whereas it is aganst > the policy of the organisation to engage in such...what has transpired is to > sheepishly ideolise comrades because they are the "heads" of those differing > camp...that on on its own is revisionist and counter-revolutionary...what s > happening now is an SACP that can't bear to discipline Jeremy Cronin in > withdrawing his statements and a party that can't further bear to apologise > to the YL on the way the issue has been handled and go on to further give > guidance to the YL on how we should go about Nationalising mines...because > in any event..mines are going to be nationalised but that shouldn't happen > to the detriment of the SACP...There's no NDR without Nationalisation > comrades...We lke it or not its going to happen... > > what is worse now is that Mbalula...who we know to be having s own > anti-patroitic..if not foreign agenda together with tokyo..are beginning to > gain high ground because they've aligned themselves with progressive > pronouncements..though they are inherently reactionary...The Party should > wake up.. > > SACP...CALL JEREMY CRONIN INTO ORDER...FOR THE SAKE OF THE SACP...AND THE > CLASS STRUGGLE... > > Xoli Dlabantu > > On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 9:18 AM, Nndwamato Mutshidza <[email protected] > > wrote: > >> General, >> >> It seems its you who is suffering from what you assume our leaders are >> suffering from. You naive inferences of assuming that only academia >> should decide the path of revolution is anti-revolutionary in a South >> African context. Maybe we should ask you, who are at the centre of >> knowledge production? Is the West (Imperialist), what do they teach our >> kids (Profit maximisation) or maybe the beuty and blossom of capitalism. >> Does the school or the academia who have made you who you are not >> encourage you to be the best no matter what other kids are going >> through. >> >> Just by providing this apology, it expose you to sufferance of >> ideological slavery you are suffering. You keep on wanting to reduce us >> to discuss issue that do not matters. The economy General is what is at >> the core of what path we take and if you are a Communist which I really >> doubt unless we are after numbers as oppose to quality you might >> understand the point of view we are raising here. >> >> I care less as to who becomes the SG in 2012 be it Mbaks or the >> retaining of Gwede, what matters to me is the programme that we should >> be pursuing as the Liberation Movement turns 100 years old. If you think >> our aggressiveness is not helping assist us to see the alternative and >> not insulting us. By the way we have the very same academic credentials >> you think we do not and you need to understand that the process to >> develop a position paper culminate from an ongoing research and only >> those that understand the process will provide empirical evidence of the >> case we are presenting. Therefore your assumptions that we the ANCYL are >> a bunch on dumb or non-academia reminds me of the debate we have some >> times ago after the launch of the Native Club as what constitute a >> Native and what make one an Intellectual (Is it not subjective this >> debate of labelling each other). >> >> You are correct this forum was never establish to replace our basic >> unit (Cells, branches) of the vanguard but a platform to share views and >> assist each other in ensuring that we sharpen our theoretical tools of >> analysis. But its cdes like you General that reduces this forum to a >> gossip column and we will refuse your indoctrination in this regards. >> >> General, assist us here "Why do Communist fear so much the >> Nationalisation Programme as proposed by the ANCYL and think that what >> the 12th Congress of SACP proposed is fine?" Why target SASOL and leave >> other drivers of our Economy. SASOl whether Nationalised or not will >> still had to procure Petroleum product on off-shore markets on a >> Dollarised currency and that risk will have to be the tax payers risk >> and when we want to do the same of Mining, cdes have some jitters, Why? >> Who owns the Mines? Are the Banks not in charge through some financier >> arrangement with BEE benefactor who produce and repay debts to Banks and >> as such the nationalisation of Mines triggers the nationalisation of >> Banks and other Commanding Heights of Economy. >> >> Please stop insulting us and deal with the issue we put in the table, >> engage our Nationalisation paper and enrich it. This whats we expect >> from Marxist/ Lennist/ Kotanist. >> >> Lets talk >> >>> sipho shandu <[email protected]> 2010/02/08 03:56 PM >>> >> Dear cadres, >> >> Let us not be reactionaries but let us revolutionary in all we write >> and >> utter. Floyd is Malema's "bedbug" and is out of line. Whatever juluis >> utters, floyd will reiterate with full support. >> >> I joined the ANC because it was the party of integrity and I made it >> my >> home. A party of peace and respect. Here came these lumpens who want to >> turn >> things around with a whole lot of disrespect and hooliganism. >> >> Julius is the presidente of the ANCYL and floyd is just the league's >> "blabbermouth" and both must attend to the matters which matter the >> most to >> youth. I do not undesrtand why Julius is discussing very complex >> matters of >> high academia when he knows that he does not have that caliber to >> discuss >> and deliberate at such a high mental state. >> >> This press statement is nonsense as it continues to devide us. Malema >> and >> his garden boys must catch a wake up call. >> >> I will not be in this forum for the wrong reasons. >> >> We have had this halabaloo where we witnessed a showdown in polokwane >> and it >> devided our party. I feel and honestly believe that we should refrain >> from >> being power mongers otherwise it will kill our party. >> >> Should anyone have a problem with my comment, please keep it to >> yourself. >> Let us come to this forum sober minded and ready to debate critical >> issues >> of national importance rather than post nonsensical opinions which >> stand no >> ground. >> >> Let me crocodile for now... >> >> Cadre General Shonalanga >> >> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 8:23 PM, Dominic Tweedie >> <[email protected]>wrote: >> >> > >> > >> > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> > From: Nyiko Floyd Shivambu <[email protected]> >> > Date: 4 February 2010 12:25 >> > Subject: ANC YL Media RESPONSE TO NICKY OPPENHEIMER, JEREMY CRONIN >> AND >> > SUSAN SHABANGU ON THE NATIONALISATION OF MINES: >> > To: anc-yl-media <[email protected]>, ancmedia < >> > [email protected]> >> > >> > >> > *RESPONSE TO NICKY OPPENHEIMER, JEREMY CRONIN AND SUSAN SHABANGU ON >> THE >> > NATIONALISATION OF MINES:* >> > >> > * * >> > >> > 04 February 2010 >> > >> > >> > >> > The African National Congress Youth League (ANC YL) has noted the >> reaction >> > of Nicky Oppenheimer, De Beers Chairperson to the misleading >> statements of >> > Minister of Minerals, Susan Shabangu that Mines will not be >> nationalised in >> > the Minister’s lifetime. We have also noted attempts to divert the >> debate on >> > Nationalisation by Jeremy Cronin, who once again, used the platform >> of the >> > South African Communist Party to express his views. We decided to >> respond to >> > Nicky, Susan and Jeremy together because their wish to retain the >> status quo >> > in terms of property relations is the same, the only slight >> difference is >> > that the other one uses sophisticated English to mislead our ally, >> the SACP >> > on its response to Nationalisation of Mines. >> > >> > >> > >> > *NICKY OPENHEIMER, SUSAN SHABANGU AND DE BEERS: * >> > >> > * * >> > >> > It is totally dishonest and criminal for Nicky Oppenheimer to say he >> agrees >> > with the misleading statements of Susan Shabangu that Mines will not >> be >> > nationalised in her lifetime. By saying Mines will not be >> nationalised in >> > her lifetime, Susan Shabangu Is referring to her lifetime as a >> Minister of >> > Minerals, because we doubt if she will be a Minister for that a very >> long >> > time. De Beers is a Mining partnership with the governments of >> Botswana, >> > Namibia and Canada, yet seems to be refusing that the people of South >> Africa >> > benefit from mining of diamond. De Beers is an inconsistent and >> immoral, >> > inhuman corporation, whose development and growth was at the expense >> of many >> > Africans’ innocent lives. De Beers super-exploited African >> labourers through >> > forced cheap labour and for many years sponsored the conquest of the >> African >> > majority by the white minorities. De Beers operated in South Africa >> during >> > apartheid and basically sponsored the murderous, destructive and >> racist >> > actions of the colonial/apartheid repressive regime. If there is ever >> any >> > corporation that has to be remorseful and understand that the people >> of >> > South Africa should share in the country’s wealth, it is De Beers. >> > >> > >> > >> > De Beers should not be misled by Susan Shabangu, but should begin to >> design >> > models of engagement with the State in the same manner they did in >> Botswana, >> > Namibia and Canada. In South Africa, De Beers should begin to adjust >> to >> > giving away 60% of its ownership and control of Mining, because that >> is what >> > is going to happen. De Beers should be leading other Mining >> corporations in >> > making them understand that Mining can happen even when the State has >> a >> > greater stake in the mining corporations, and stop listening to wrong >> advice >> > by the Minister of Minerals. >> > >> > >> > >> > We do not expect Nicky Oppenheimer to support Nationalisation because >> he is >> > protecting his ill-gotten wealth, currently worth billions of Rands, >> which >> > he inherited from his war mongering forefathers. Whilst not openly >> > supporting Nationalisation, Patrice Motsepe has said in a >> constructive >> > manner that if it happens in the interest of South Africa, he would >> support >> > nationalisation. But a greedy, unethical capitalist, who stays in >> London, >> > does not care about the interest of South Africa. If Nicky >> Oppenheimer >> > thinks that he has a hold on the ANC through Minister Susan Shabangu, >> then >> > he is misled, because Susan Shabangu is not the ANC and does not >> understand >> > the ANC. >> > >> > >> > >> > *JEREMY CRONIN AND THE SACP* >> > >> > * * >> > >> > The ANC Youth League wants to place it on record that Jeremy Cronin >> has on >> > several occasions been given the opportunity to contribute into the >> > discussion document on Nationalisation of Mines. He was specifically >> asked >> > to write a chapter in the document on how Nationalised Mines should >> alter >> > South Africa’s accumulation and growth path in order to address >> the >> > Minerals-energy-finance complex. As always, the only thing he could >> do was >> > make a false commitment that he will contribute, but chose not to. >> In >> > November 2009, Jeremy Cronin committed to make input and we are >> still >> > waiting for his input. He instead chose to use the platform of the >> Communist >> > Party to try and divert focus from the ANC Youth League’s call for >> > Nationalisation and label it opportunistic and weak, primarily >> because of a >> > section which he was requested to make contributions on. >> > >> > >> > >> > The ANC Youth League is acutely aware that what are presented as >> views of >> > the SACP Politburo are personal, reactionary views of Jeremy Cronin >> who >> > forever succeeds in misleading the Communist Party. The SACP’s >> support for >> > Nationalisation is couched with lots of doubts and aspersions >> intended as >> > questioning the legitimacy of the ANC Youth League to raise the >> debate. The >> > Communist Party should intensely look within itself and ask the >> relevant >> > question of why is it that all the personal beliefs of one Jeremy >> Cronin >> > without failure become the views of the Communist Party. The ANC YL >> is aware >> > that the labels of “Kebble-ism”, “anti-communist” >> > >> > >> > >> > Jeremy Cronin is again re-committing the same mistake he committed >> when he >> > said our understanding of beneficiation is bling. Jeremy Cronin does >> not >> > read the official document of the ANC YL, but rushes to respond even >> on >> > issues that have already been addressed. This specifically relates to >> the >> > conceptual foundation of the document which unequivocally says that >> > “nationalisation does not amount to bailing out of indebted >> capitalists”. >> > The entire question of South Africa’s State Owned Enterprises is >> addressed >> > in the discussion document, but as always, Jeremy Cronin ignores it >> and >> > instead chooses to raise false alarms on the whole debate. >> > >> > >> > >> > Why a Communist cadre in the form of Jeremy Cronin refuses to >> > constructively input into the Nationalisation of Mines perspective >> even when >> > humbly requested to is worrying. But as they say, blood is thicker >> than >> > water. The ANC YL is neither grand-standing, nor threatening anyone. >> > Inspired by the 1944 founding generation of the ANC, we will not >> support any >> > leader of the ANC who is opposed to our political programme. It would >> be >> > foolhardy for the Youth League to support leaders who are opposed to >> our >> > programme. >> > >> > >> > >> > We will continue to engage with the Communist Party and COSATU and >> develop >> > a proper programme moving forward. Nationalisation of Mines will >> happen, and >> > for Nicky Oppenheimer and Jeremy Cronin, we appreciate your >> opposition >> > because it makes us more determined. >> > >> > >> > >> > *Issued by the African National Congress Youth League * >> > >> > Contact Floyd Shivambu, ANC YL Spokesperson >> > >> > 0828199474 >> > >> > >> > -- >> > You are subscribed. This footer can help you. >> > Please POST your comments to [email protected] or >> reply to >> > this message. >> > You can visit the group WEB SITE at >> > http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different >> delivery >> > options, pages, files and membership. >> > To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email >> [email protected]. You don't have to put >> anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to >> > put anything in the message part. All you have to do is to send an >> e-mail to >> > this address (repeat): [email protected] >> . >> > >> >> -- >> You are subscribed. This footer can help you. >> Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply >> to this message. >> You can visit the group WEB SITE at >> http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery >> options, pages, files and membership. >> To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email >> [email protected] . You don't have to put >> anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to put anything in the >> message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail to this address >> (repeat): [email protected] . >> >> -- >> This message is subject to the CSIR's copyright terms and conditions, >> e-mail legal notice, and implemented Open Document Format (ODF) standard. >> The full disclaimer details can be found at >> http://www.csir.co.za/disclaimer.html. >> >> This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by >> MailScanner, >> and is believed to be clean. MailScanner thanks Transtec Computers for >> their support. >> >> -- >> You are subscribed. This footer can help you. >> Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to >> this message. >> You can visit the group WEB SITE at >> http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery >> options, pages, files and membership. >> To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email [email protected]. >> You don't have to put anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to >> put anything in the message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail to >> this address (repeat): [email protected] . >> > > -- You are subscribed. This footer can help you. Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to this message. You can visit the group WEB SITE at http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery options, pages, files and membership. To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email [email protected] . You don't have to put anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to put anything in the message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail to this address (repeat): [email protected] .
