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Thanks Comrade VC
I have been engaging on the subject since 1997 and I am particularly
satisfied with your response , yes the question has always been that
what formula to be employed ?and the suppression of the counter -
revolution as a tendency immediately after the revolution .
Ranney Jomo Segage
Credit and Revenue Management
Tel : 013 6934158
Fax : 013 6934186
Pax : 82214158
Cell : 0824710085
The denial of social contradictions leads to the denial of dialectics
as a logical theory
>>> Dominic Tweedie <[email protected]> 2010/03/31 05:08 PM
>>>
Cde Ranney,
Are you grasping for a formula?
Perhaps you may remember that there was also the "non-capitalist road"?
And
Trotsky's "transitional programme"?
It is not that we have to bet on one imaginary horse or another, or
play one
standard card or another.
It is that if we are not capable of organising people democratically,
to the
extent that all our work could be pushed over by a young demagogue,
then we
are idle to be talking of socialism at all.
If the organisations we have nurtured can be hijacked, then we have not
done
our work well enough and should not be dreaming of leading imaginary
proletarian armies which have not been sufficiently organised yet.
Democracy, the forming of the collective historical subject, must come
first.
Consider Swaziland, if you don't mind for a second. There is nobody
inside
the country or in South Africa who is bold enough to call for a
republic in
Swaziland. We are far less forthright than the French Revolutionaries,
whom
you will no doubt say were bourgeois, as they were.
This is what Lenin said in his report to the Second Congress of the
Communist International (2CCI) in 1920, on the National & Colonial
Question:
“We have discussed whether it would be right or wrong, in principle
and in
theory, to state that the Communist International and the Communist
parties
must support the bourgeois-democratic movement in backward countries.
As a
result of our discussion, we have arrived at the unanimous decision to
speak
of the national-revolutionary movement rather than of the
‘bourgeois-democratic’ movement. It is beyond doubt that any
national
movement can only be a bourgeois-democratic movement, since the
overwhelming
mass of the population in the backward countries consist of peasants
who
represent bourgeois-capitalist relationships… However, the objections
have
been raised that, if we speak of the bourgeois-democratic movement, we
shall
be obliterating all distinctions between the reformist and the
revolutionary
movements. Yet that distinction has been very clearly revealed of late
in
the backward and colonial countries…”
Lenin is saying here that it is not a question of whether it is
bourgeois or
not, but whether it is revolutionary or not.
Perhaps you are thinking that the bourgeois-democratic parliamentary
apparatus is the sum total of democracy? But this is not so, and
obviously
not so in South Africa. Yet the masses still have to be organised in
all
sorts of ways. Why do you not hear that? Why do you not see that, when
it is
written down?
Instead, you want to know which card is being played. This is not a
game of
cards, comrade.
VC
On 31 March 2010 15:43, Ranney Segage <[email protected]>
wrote:
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> Comrade VC
>
> Can you perhaps clarify the question of stages in which a particular
> revolution has to pass through , of whether do we real have to pass
> through the bourgeois democratic revolution and latter the
Socialist
> contraction in which the primary objective of the National
Democratic
> Revolution is to create a terrain for the Socialist agenda.Which one
> ?the Stalin's two stage theory or the Lenin's approach.
>
> Yours in the Struggle for Socialism
>
> Ranney Jomo Segage
> Credit and Revenue Management
> Tel : 013 6934158
> Fax : 013 6934186
> Pax : 82214158
> Cell : 0824710085
>
> The denial of social contradictions leads to the denial of
dialectics
> as a logical theory
>
>
> >>> Dominic Tweedie <[email protected]> 2010/03/31 03:26 PM
> >>>
> Cde Litha and Cde Prophet,
>
> What I happen to think is necessary at this time, for whatever my
> opinion is
> worth, is that comrades begin to have a much better understanding of
> the
> NDR.
>
> There is no way that a class, or a class alliance of the oppressed,
can
> take
> power unless it is organised. I am afraid that you may think of the
> Party as
> a version of the Good Shepherd, but it is not so and it cannot be
like
> that.
>
> We say that we have achieved a democratic breakthrough, in 1994, and
> we
> might as well count Polokwane as another democratic breakthrough.
> These
> breakthroughs give all of us, communists or not, the opportunity to
> continue
> the work of democratisation, down to street level, and in all
fragments
> and
> sections especially including the women, and to all corners of the
> country.
>
> Masses of people cannot act as a historic Subject - the Subject of
> History -
> unless they are democratically organised. This is a prerequisite of
> any
> questions about socialism, among others. The process of
democratisation
> is
> actually indistinguishable from the process of socialisation.
>
> The outbursts of Julius Malema have put us on notice that the work
of
> democratisation is at risk from demagogy. Especially I am referring
to
> the
> attacks on the SACP where the capitalist Malema was falsely posing
as
> being
> more communist than the communists. The fact that an important
> component of
> the NDR such as the ANC YL could find itself with a President who is
a
> deceptive demagogue is an indication that the work of
democratisation
> is not
> yet well enough done. By the way, this is something that should
> especially
> concern the YCL.
>
> Not only internally, but externally also, the NDR is crucial. South
> Africa
> should be promoting NDR everywhere from Zimbabwe to Swaziland to
> Palestine
> to Nepal. NDR is our main interest. Yet how many of us understand it
> fully,
> and understand its history?
>
> Prophet and Litha, we are not in competition with our allies. It is
> the
> communists, to a greater extent than any others, who have built the
ANC
> and
> COSATU. Communists are continuing to build those organisations
today,
> but
> there is still much more work to be done before the country is
> democratised
> to the full and necessary extent. Please note that I am not saying
it
> is a
> matter of time. It is a matter of doing the work, and the work is
> urgent.
>
> VC
>
>
>
> On 31 March 2010 14:24, <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> > VC
> >
> > How then do you propose we achieve a Socialist state. The ANC
> prides
> > itself on being a party that acommodates people with different
> ideologies
> > who seek to achieve the same goal.(Africanists,christians,ect) are
> you
> > proposing we swell the ranks of the ANC to influence policy? Is
this
> > possible with the current state of affairs within the Allaince? Is
is
> not
> > better to build a strong SACP where we can have a louder voice
within
> the
> > Allaince? i may be off the point. i am a political novice,after
all.
> >
> >
> >
> > With best regards/Mit freundlichen Grüssen /Ngeminqweno
> emihle/שָׁלם
> >
> > Litha Thando Yono
> > Mechatronics Technician
> > DaimlerChrysler South Africa
> > P.O Box 671
> > East London
> > 5200
> > Tel(W) 043-706 2970
> > Fax(W)043 706 9308
> >
> > "You show me a capitalist,i'll show you a bloodsucker"
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *[email protected]*
> > Sent by: [email protected]
> >
> > 2010/03/31 02:05 PM
> > Please respond to
> >
> > [email protected]
> >
> > To
> > [email protected]
> > cc
> > Subject
> > Re: [YCLSA Discussion] The Tripartite Alliance-going back to
basics;
> > who must lead the Alliance?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > My Dear Nqobizitha,
> >
> > You don't follow, but it's o.k.!
> >
> > All the time I have known you, you have been charming, and calm,
and
> I have
> > never known a theoretical political question to really trouble
you.
> You are
> > not a person who is usually disturbed by internal contradictions
or
> doubts.
> > This has its advantages, and its disadvantages.
> >
> > What I have written in my previous message on this thread stands
on
> its own
> > and is not to be cancelled by, or counterposed to, any matters
such
> as these
> > others that you mention now.
> >
> > Among other things, what I have written implies that the MDC of
> Zimbabwe is
> > doomed because it is a bourgeois party. The MDC's only half-good
> argument is
> > that two bourgeois parties are better than one. The MDC may have
had
> > revolutionary democratic potential at some stage. I don't know if
it
> did or
> > not. But if so, then by now those days of revolutionary potential
are
> gone.
> >
> > It is clear that there are very few Zimbabweans who understand
South
> > Africa's National Democratic Revolution, or understand NDRs in
> general. By
> > the way, I am currently running the CU course on NDRs on a blog
> called *
> > http://arsnotoria.blogspot.com/*
<http://arsnotoria.blogspot.com/>,
> if you
> > are interested. I started it there on 15 March.
> >
> > The ANC is not a competitor to its allies. It does need to grow.
All
> the
> > other democratic mass organisations need to grow, too, and not
just
> those
> > three or four who are the acknowledged members of the NDR
Alliance.
> >
> > I can't answer for people who think they can capture the ANC in
some
> way.
> > That is a mistake. We don't do that. It's against our
constitution.
> >
> > The question of the SACP standing candidates for Parliament is a
> matter of
> > tactics. The need for such a thing is considerably less since
> Polokwane.
> >
> > The question of the SACP ever seeking to win an actual majority in
a
> > bourgeois-democratic parliamentary election is absurd in my
opinion,
> for
> > reasons already given. The SACP, unlike the MDC for example, is
not
> a
> > bourgeois party.
> >
> > It is the class which must take power to accomplish socialism, and
> not the
> > Party.
> >
> > Your idea of taking power is simply derived from bourgeois ideas
of
> > majority rule.
> >
> > That's o.k., because the communists will not slaughter the
> bourgeoisie. But
> > if you want to get into our politics, in our organisations, then
you
> need to
> > straighten out some of your ideas Cde Nqobizitha.
> >
> > I am pretty sure that I have told you most, or possibly all, of
this
> > before, but it has rolled off you like water from a duck's back.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > VC
> >
> >
> >
> > On 31 March 2010 13:25, Nqobizitha Mlilo M
> <*[email protected]*<[email protected]>>
> > wrote:
> > Cde Dominic
> >
> > Please indulge me-I genuinely wish to understand this matter.
> >
> > So when there is a call to swell the ranks of the ANC what is the
end
> goal
> > of that?
> >
> > Secondly, are you suggesting that the call by some that the SACP
> must
> > contest elections is ideologically indefensible?
> >
> > From what you are saying how do we reach a Socialist and then a
> Communist
> > state? Is it by the communists swelling the ranks of the ANC and
> "...
> > fostering a dictatorship of the popular masses, or the
> proletariat..."
> > through the ANC. I don't follow.
> >
> > I beg your indulgence cde VC.
> >
> > Amandla
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 3/31/10, *Dominic Tweedie*
> <*[email protected]*<[email protected]>>
> > wrote:
> > Dear Cde Mduduzi,
> >
> > You have brought this discussion to a nice point where one can
answer
> Yes,
> > or No.
> >
> > And the answer is definitely: No.
> >
> > The Party's role is to foster a hegemony or in other words a
> dictatorship
> > of the popular masses, or of the proletariat - a People's
Democratic
> > Dictatorship of one sort or another. By all means continue to have
a
> > discussion about those alternatives.
> >
> > But the distinguishing characteristic of the Communist Party among
> other
> > parties is that it never seeks power for itself. The day that the
> Communist
> > Party seeks power for itself, it will become no different from any
> common
> > bourgeois party.
> >
> > The ANC as the liberation movement of the popular masses must lead
> itself.
> > We can't lead it, without destroying it. It must be democratic and
> lead
> > itself. It is the embodiment of the Alliance, as much as the One
> Spirit is
> > the embodiment of the Trinity. There is no separate standing
> Alliance
> > authority, and there will never be.
> >
> > Likewise the mass organisations of the working class lead
themselves,
> and
> > would be of no use if they were not able and willing and
determined
> to lead
> > themselves.
> >
> > The Party leads in its own way, as the indispensable generalist
> vanguard
> > complement to the great mass organisations of the people.
> >
> > The task of the NDR is to extend democracy to all corners of the
> republic
> > and from bottom to top. The main means of doing so is by
educating,
> > organising and mobilising the masses in all conceivable ways.
> >
> > This communist task has not changed and should not change.
> >
> > VC
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Mduduzi H Vilakazi wrote:
> > Cdes,
> >
> > The discussion around the issue of who leads the alliance is as
old
> as the
> > existence of the alliance. This alliance is not a product of a
> boardroom
> > wherein a decision of which component leads could be discussed. It
is
> an
> > alliance that came as a result of pramatic programmes.
> >
> > History tells us that were it not of the banning of the party in
> 1950, the
> > ANC could have not made this historic strides. After its banning,
the
> party
> > operated underground and established an international networks
with
> other
> > communist parties outside. The base for the ANC in exile was
created
> and
> > established through the efforts of the SACP.
> >
> > The campaigns and the congress of the people (not COPE) in that
took
> place
> > between 1950 and 1960 were mainly influenced by a socialist
agenda.
> Equally,
> > the SACP was the first to adopt a non-racial and non-sexist stance
> long
> > before the the ANC could realise it.
> >
> > When the ANC was banned in 1960, all systems were in place to
> accommodate
> > these cadres into exile by the left-leaning organisations outside
> the
> > country. Most cadres were taken to Moscow, Russia for military and
> political
> > training. The ANC was mainly funded by the communist parties from
> accross
> > the globe including education of most of our leaders.
> >
> > I have dwelt much on the historic epoch above to clarify that the
> SACP has
> > always provided leadership during and after the fight for
> liberation.
> > However, it was strategic then to allow the ANC as the major
> mobiliser of
> > masses to carry on the work of speaking on behalf of the oppressed
> masses of
> > our people because of its inclusive character.
> >
> > The question is whether the ground is not fertile now for the SACP
to
> lead
> > the alliance so that it spead up the realisation of an open class
> struggle.
> > I mean, the ANC, much as it addresses certain elements of the
> revolution, it
> > does so in focussing much on the national struggle while too
> accommodative
> > to the capitalists as well.
> >
> > Are we not ready as communists to lead the alliance to an open
class
> > struggle?
> >
> > I remain
> >
> > *Mduduzi Herman Vilakazi*
> > *Internal Auditor*
> > Dept of P/Works, Roads and Transport
> > Mpumalanga Province
> >
> > Tel: 013 766 8280
> > Cell: 083 357 4849/083 990 8523
> > Fax: 086 544 3205
> >
> > "Ignorant men don't know what good they hold in their hands until
> they've
> > flung it away."
> > -Sophocles
> >
> >
> >
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