Good gesture VC, always respected. Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
-----Original Message----- From: Dominic Tweedie <[email protected]> Sender: [email protected] Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 14:09:41 To: <[email protected]> Reply-To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [YCLSA Discussion] A Duhring Wanna BEE O.k. Apologies to Skhumbuzo! VC On 6 August 2010 14:05, morgan phaahla <[email protected]> wrote: > Thanks cde Gugu for your intervention to restore order, as always. One > thing I admire about you is your infinite reasoning backed by logic and > diplomacy. Keep it up, cadre! > > Back to the subject in question, I understand where cde VC comes from. He's > not entirely saying "no posting of materials for discussion" but > cautioning our utterances when analysing these issues. We shouldn't make > runaway statements but dissect issues broadly and emerge with a concise > political analysis absent of distortions, baseless theories and antagonism > as articulated by comrades. > > Therefore usage of words like dealing with journalists might mean we're > calling for undemocratic practices in the midst of the public outcry by > media on the proposed tribunal. Research reasoning and timing > become important, hence we need to be sensitive about what we're saying so > that we do not send wrong signals and create impression that the tribunal is > the ruling class attempt to censor the alternative voices. > > The public is the biggest stakeholder, hence any public motion or bill > process to have a weight the public must have a say as the constitution > dictates, wherein a diversity of voices are accommodated which includes > naysayers, anti-communists, renegades, neo-liberals, et al. Because they all > occupy space and have mass - so whatever a view they hold must also be > respected. I think that is the reality we need to accept and live with. > > Having said that, however I agree with comrades that cde VC was very harsh > on cde Skhumbuzo. My appeal is that let's act fairly yet also be firm in our > inputs when challenging one's contributions to the forum. > > We should make it difficult or cause comrades to be shy to make inputs for > fear of being dealt with. Tolerance, maqabane, we're one. Everyone's > contribution must be treated with respect without questioning his/her bona > fide. All inputs are valuable and important to the forum as long as it adds > value to the cause of our movement. > > Remain, > Morgan Phaahla > > "Sometimes, if you wear suits for too long, it changes your ideology." - > Joe Slovo > > --- On *Fri, 8/6/10, Gugu Ndima <[email protected]>* wrote: > > > From: Gugu Ndima <[email protected]> > > Subject: Re: [YCLSA Discussion] A Duhring Wanna BEE > To: [email protected] > Date: Friday, August 6, 2010, 5:35 AM > > > Comrades, > > I think its proper that we acknowledge the fact that there are individuals > out there who are hell-bent in tarnishing the SACP/Left at all costs. they > will even resort to narrow tactics as illustrated by this unbearably > emotional "Barney" character. > > However it will even be more futile if we pretend that such characters do > not exist and simply opt to ignore them. We must vigorously occupy the space > they utilise to rubbish our revolutionary leaders and ensure that we defend > them. As Cde. Khaye correctly puts it, we must do so through clear, concise > political analysis absent of distortions, baseless theories and antagonism. > > Let us engage on this article and the insinuations made by this lost soul > named "Barney the purple Dinosaur" . There are a number of articles that > are posted on the YCLSA discussion of which at times we might not > necessarily agree with. That is when our character as Protagonists and > defenders of our movement is tested. We have always been characterised by > tolerance even when severe contradictions arise, so such articles should > never deter us from our revolutionary morale and our ability to ensure that > common parlance prevails in debates. > > Cde Gugu > > On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 11:15 AM, Dominic Tweedie < > [email protected]<http://us.mc502.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]> > > wrote: > > I would still like Cde Skhumbizo to tell us what his intentions are, in > posting this article. > > One problem is that we are in the middle of a furore about press freedom. > There are many terrible things in the media such as lies and smears and we > want to protest about those. > > But if we start saying that anti-communists like Barney Mthombothi are to > be dealt with, just because they are anti-communist, then we are on a > slippery slope. > > The way to respond is with polemic. That is, you take Mthombothi's article > and you expose all his lies, including his bogus Lenin quote and his claim > that he, as a media person, is democratic, while the democracy of the > country according to Mthombothi is making a war on democracy. > > You expose the lies and you lambaste the old hypocrite. But Cde Skhumbuzo > did not do so. All he did was to trail Mthombothi's article past us, noting > only that Mthobothi had insulted the SACP GS. Whereas Mthombothi's article > insulted others as well as Cde Blade and also made some seriously wrong > statements. > > I suspect Cde Skhumbuzo is just too lazy to do the polemical job that is > required and he wants to volunteer somebody else to do it. That is behaviour > that we all know in meetings et cetera. Comrades get up and call for things > to be done, when they should have just done them already. > > > VC > > > > > > On 6 August 2010 09:44, Luzuko Buku > <[email protected]<http://us.mc502.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]> > > wrote: > > I fully concure with comrade Khanye, sometimes as communist we must > expose ourselve to these liberal onsloughts in order to defend our position > and our ideology, which informs our quest. Some people hold different views > but I read anti-communist works in order to stregthen the ideology that I > have made to be part of my life. For instance the writer of this article > opportunistically connects the issue of lavish lifestyles of some cadres to > the debate on media tribunal. This is a clear attempt to blackmail us into > silence and stop persuing the debate on the Media Appeals Tribunal. We need > to read such articles in order to challange them. In the recent Msebenzi > Oline, comrade Jeremy Cronin goes about reading the reactionary articles > of various columnist in order to expose their poor substance and > rich grandstanding. Remember the Communist Party of London read the entire > "Black book of Communism" and then wrote an entire pamphlet not just > dismissing it but also exposing its flaws, myths and misrepresentations. > > Revolutionary Regards > > > Luzuko Buku > SASCO Regional Chair > Western Region (EC) > 0786172286 > www.lbuku.blogspot.com > > > "The state is the product and manifestation of the irreconcilability of > class antagonisms..."State and Revolution, Lenin (1917) > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* khaye nkwanyana > <[email protected]<http://us.mc502.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]>> > > > *To:* > [email protected]<http://us.mc502.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]> > *Sent:* Fri, August 6, 2010 10:32:23 AM > > *Subject:* Re: [YCLSA Discussion] A Duhring Wanna BEE > > VC I think you are unfair to Skhumbuzo. At times as communist we need to > appraise ourselves about onslaughts pursued against us and our leadership so > that we mobilize against those in the battle of ideas. This posting by Thomo > should not mean a call for comrades to internalize but to fight the agenda > through opinion pieces etc. In the same bourgeois media to demistify these > myths. > Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device > ------------------------------ > *From: *Dominic Tweedie > <[email protected]<http://us.mc502.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]>> > > *Sender: > *[email protected]<http://us.mc502.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]> > *Date: *Fri, 6 Aug 2010 08:49:45 +0200 > *To: > *<[email protected]<http://us.mc502.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]> > > > *ReplyTo: > *[email protected]<http://us.mc502.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]> > *Subject: *Re: [YCLSA Discussion] A Duhring Wanna BEE > > Skhumbuzo, > > Is it your intention to be posting all the anti-communist articles that you > can find? > > Why? What is the use of that? > > Do you think we are all going to run barking after the Barney Mthombothis > of this world like your pack of hounds? > > This article helps us not at all to understand anything. > > Are you the kind of bloke who reads the Duhring part of anti-Duhring, and > ignores the Engels part? Because, frankly, that's a bit boring. > > Personally I read the Engels parts and ignore the bits about Duhring. > > > VC > > > > On 6 August 2010 08:12, Sikhumbuzo Thomo > <[email protected]<http://us.mc502.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]> > > wrote: > > Comrades; > > Pasted are further insults on our general secretary. > > Rgds, ST > > Barney Mthombothi > > Editor’s note <http://www.fm.co.za/Article.aspx?id=117201> Deadly threat > to all <http://www.fm.co.za/Article.aspx?id=117201> > Barney Mthombothi > Thursday, 5 Aug 2010 > > The collapse of the Soviet Union two decades ago exposed not only the > bankruptcy of its ideology but the rich and obscene lifestyle of its leaders > — the dachas where they romped and lolled and the extravagantly furnished > bunkers where they would have safely repaired in the event of a nuclear > attack. > > <http://ad.za.doubleclick.net/jump/n5963.financialmail/fm.life;tile=3;sz=728x90;ord=123456789?> > *Meanwhile ordinary people were constantly exhorted *to put their faith > in the revolution. It was dachas for the cream of society and gulags for > dissenters. > Communism is an ideology conceived in a lie. Leaders say one thing while > doing the other. They live a life of deception. They don’t seem prepared to > live the life or reality they often romanticise, or to which their policies > condemn ordinary people. And because the media and other forms of > communication are controlled by the state, the so-called working class are > kept in the dark and therefore meekly accept their lot. > That is the nirvana that Blade Nzimande has in mind for us. The general > secretary of the SA Communist Party, who works as minister for higher > education when he feels like it, wants the media shackled because it has > shown him up to be a hypocrite. This champion of the working class drives > posh cars and lives it up in fancy hotels — at our expense. Now he wants a > tribunal to stop or frustrate the media from telling the truth. > But that’s par for the course, I suppose. After all it was Vladimir Lenin > who blurted: “Telling the truth is a bourgeois prejudice. Deception, on the > other hand, is often justified by the goal.” > It’s revealing that the two men leading the campaign against the media have > been in the news for the wrong reasons : Nzimande and communications > minister Siphiwe Nyanda . Nyanda, the man with a fine taste for tenders, has > seen his name crop up in many an unsavoury scrap as a result of his business > dealings. He got a tender that got Siyabonga Gama fired at Transnet. He’s > currently embroiled in a messy fight with his director- general, and tenders > are at the heart of the dispute. On Sunday he wrote a long, rambling article > in favour of a media tribunal. The logic was difficult to follow. He should > stick to tenders. > There are those who may think the media is obsessed with gazing at its own > navel. This is not a war waged against the media only, but against democracy > itself. It challenges the very essence of our constitution. As the FM argued > recently, it is a battle that should involve all strands of society — > business, civil society — against those who are intent on imposing darkness > on us, so that they can loot and plunder at will. > This is by no means an isolated attack. In the eyes of Jacob Zuma’s > supporters, the media forms part of that axis of evil — to borrow a phrase — > which almost denied their hero what he was due ; the other axis members > being the Scorpions and the judiciary. Zuma’s triumph in Polokwane sounded > the death knell for the Scorpions, who were immediately consigned to the > scrapheap. The judiciary has been shouted down and almost cowed. Which > leaves the media, with its enormous power to influence public opinion and to > expose, shame and embarrass those in authority. > As Lenin once posed the question, what then is to be done? The media > tribunal and the Protection of Information Bill seem to be the answer. The > notion of “protecting” information from the public in a democracy is, > frankly, bizarre. > It’s not the first time government has tried to rein in the media. The Nats > tried several times, and failed each time . This lot, which seem keen to > learn from their predecessors, will also fail. But that would demand > concerted action from all sectors of society, including the business > community. For once, business needs to raise its voice against what is > arguably the biggest threat to our democracy since the fall of apartheid. > -- > You are subscribed. 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