Cde. I don't believe the discussion was about answers but more about engaging views. You have yours I have mine. Again you display despot characteristics by giving ultimatums on matters of opinion. Either I say u are right or I go to Zille? Cde are u serious? You have moved from the subject to attacking the author. Let's keep to the discussion. Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
-----Original Message----- From: Dominic Tweedie <[email protected]> Sender: [email protected] Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2011 12:50:50 To: <[email protected]> Reply-To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [YCLSA Discussion] ANC YOUTH LEAGUE DISAGREES WITHTHEOBSERVATIONSOF COSATU GENERAL SECRETARY ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT ELECTIONS: You have your tail between your legs! If you are a child, then be taught. If you want to defy, then defy. Otherwise, admit that you have no answers, and no character. Submit, or go to Auntie Zille. VC On 7 April 2011 12:40, <[email protected]> wrote: > Comrade if we didn't spark debates from within such as this forum so that > we can strengthen the chains then we shall be weakened from without. A child > that asks his parent a question about the future is not disrespectful but > shows interest in the family growth. U mentioning DA or that we join DA is > simply acting like despot hence u used Libya as an example where the country > is run by a family and not a socialist movement. Cde u need to listen > without prejudice and help with info required,wielding a stick will not make > arguments seem stronga but will expose your intolrence to the voices of the > movement > Amandla! > > Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device > ------------------------------ > *From: * Dominic Tweedie <[email protected]> > *Sender: * [email protected] > *Date: *Thu, 7 Apr 2011 12:26:51 +0200 > *To: *<[email protected]> > *ReplyTo: * [email protected] > *Subject: *Re: [YCLSA Discussion] ANC YOUTH LEAGUE DISAGREES > WITHTHEOBSERVATIONS OF COSATU GENERAL SECRETARY ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT > ELECTIONS: > > > I am surprised that so many of you comrades walk into the liberal trap so > easily. > > Of course a government can never do "enough" under a bourgeois > class-dictatorship. We know this > > Do you think it therefore follows that we need a different bourgeois > government? If so, then go and join the DA! > > The whole "delivery" story is based on this fallacy. Why then are we > beating our backs with a stick made by the DA? > > Worse, there are organised students who are attempting to drive the ANC > into the same "delivery" corner. Instead of taking up the measures laid on > by the Ministry of Higher Education to get more students into education, > they denounce these as "not enough" and refuse to cooperate with them! They > use same cheap jibes that the DA always uses. > > To my surprise I now see that on the day that the DTI has announced further > measures of job creation, comrades on here are already denouncing them. > > "Delivery" is baby talk. "Delivery" is reformism, comrades. Why not think > for a moment before you start trying to twist the ANC's arm up its back > while the DA beats them up in front? Think whose cause you are furthering. > > Of course there can never be enough "delivery". Even in Libya, where the > standard of living was higher than anywhere else in Africa, the Imperialists > were easily able to find collaborators who were complaining about > "delivery". > > Populists and reactionaries can always cry about delivery, *and they will > always do so loudest exactly when there is delivery*! You check back and > you will see what I mean. > > Now is the time to make a reality of IPAP2, Growth Path, and National Plan. > Or else find yourselves tailing the right wing on the basis of fraudulent > populist slogans about "delivery". Maybe some of you have started to believe > them? Then make your choice accordingly, but the rest of you should rather > try to build up some revolutionary political knowledge instead of running > after "delivery" like idiots. > > > VC > > > > > > > On 7 April 2011 11:43, <[email protected]> wrote: > >> I agree there are many displaced youth as well as many without educational >> assistance though they got great grades. The argument that says they've done >> this and that shouldn't be used as a debating tool because ultimately all >> govt are voted into power with an expectation to deliver. It is the rate of >> delivery that determines success >> >> Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device >> ------------------------------ >> *From: * thabo mathiba <[email protected]> >> *Sender: * [email protected] >> *Date: *Thu, 7 Apr 2011 11:33:19 +0200 >> *To: *<[email protected]> >> *ReplyTo: * [email protected] >> *Subject: *Re: [YCLSA Discussion] ANC YOUTH LEAGUE DISAGREES WITH >> THEOBSERVATIONS OF COSATU GENERAL SECRETARY ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT ELECTIONS: >> >> indeed the goverment has tried buts its not enough,and i think we will >> never see enough as long as our leaders continue putting their intrests >> above that of citzen,the recent study by sairr that many of the youth in our >> country at 24 years are doing nothing ,not at school,working or attending >> any training of some sort is alarming.with that said south africa is still a >> nice place to live in and alive with possibilieties if our leaders can do >> what they where voted for. >> >> On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 11:03 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> If I may comrades, >>> >>> I think we must stop these little petty personal attacks but try and >>> discuss the core issues of these statements. >>> >>> I know that the ruling party in partnership with its alliances have done >>> a lot in SA. I think the real question to be asked is, IS IT ENOUGH. >>> >>> Has government done enough for everyone? The youth league has recently >>> said that those who vote ANC are living heaven in earth or something along >>> those lines, IS IT Really like that. >>> >>> Let us not stick our head in the sand and admit we can do better and do >>> so. >>> >>> I close >>> >>> Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you! >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From: *Sibusiso Mimi <[email protected]> >>> *Sender: *[email protected] >>> *Date: *Thu, 7 Apr 2011 09:23:12 +0200 >>> *To: *<[email protected]> >>> *ReplyTo: *[email protected] >>> *Cc: *Bongani Dlamini<[email protected]>; < >>> [email protected]> >>> *Subject: *Re: [YCLSA Discussion] ANC YOUTH LEAGUE DISAGREES WITH THE >>> OBSERVATIONS OF COSATU GENERAL SECRETARY ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT ELECTIONS: >>> >>> This is embarrassing – this response is as if it was written in a night >>> club – ZAR probably! Instead of engaging substantial issues, this response >>> is rather childish in its view and contest the assertions made by cde Vavi >>> but offers nothing. It is a drunken response to real issues facing our >>> country one of which being mass unemployment and widening inequalities. It >>> is no secret; the ANC is going into the local government elections >>> contemplating real challenges such as entrenched corruption in local >>> government, chronic poverty and many other social ills. >>> >>> >>> I'm sure Cosatu is very much aware of the inroads made by the ANC since >>> we came top power but you cant simply wish the current challenges away -- >>> the ANCYL rather should make proposals on how to deal with the current >>> challenges. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 12:41 AM, Bongani Dlamini < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> ANC YOUTH LEAGUE DISAGREES WITH THE OBSERVATIONS OF COSATU GENERAL >>>> SECRETARY ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT ELECTIONS: >>>> >>>> 06 April 2011 >>>> >>>> The ANC Youth League disagrees with the remarks and observations of >>>> COSATU General SecretaryZwelinzima Vavi on the upcoming Local >>>> Government Elections. In his address to the NUMSA Bargaining Conference, >>>> Comrade Vavi said that “We [ANC] are going into elections with our >>>> tails between our legs. With our backs to the wall, because we have lost >>>> 1,17million jobs and 5,8million families are plunged into poverty”. In the >>>> same address, the General Secretary of COSATU further said there is a >>>> possibility that we might soon call someone President Zille. >>>> >>>> The ANC Youth League does not agree that the ANC will go to local >>>> government elections with its tail behind the legs, because contrary to >>>> what >>>> is implied, the ANC has done exceptionally well with regards to service >>>> delivery. The ANC has provided water, electricity, roads, sanitation, >>>> houses >>>> and many other basic services to millions of people over the past 5 years. >>>> Whilst we all accept that there is a problem of unemployment, it is wrong >>>> to >>>> blame unemployment and retrenchments on the ANC government, particularly at >>>> local level. The ANC goes into the local government elections with its head >>>> very high because we have fulfilled more than 80% of the promises made in >>>> the 2006 Local Government Elections. >>>> >>>> The General Secretary of COSATU should understand better than anyone >>>> that job losses that occurred because of the world economic recession >>>> cannot >>>> be blamed on the ANC, but on many other factors that are beyond the ANC’s >>>> control. Instead of educating workers that job-losses are a result of >>>> global >>>> economic crisis, the General Secretary of COSATU implies that the ANC >>>> is responsible for the job-losses. The ANC government carries a >>>> responsibility of building sustainable livelihoods for all thepeople of >>>> South Africa and is on track with regards to functions it can play. >>>> There are also commendable efforts in the ANC to mobilise the whole of >>>> society, particularly the private sector to create job opportunities >>>> for majority of the people. These efforts should be appreciated, and >>>> properly communicated because anything that creates the impression that the >>>> ANC is responsible for job-losses is misleading. >>>> >>>> An imagination that Helen Zille will ever be President of South Africa is >>>> alarmist because Helen Zille will never be President of South Africa, even >>>> if the sun can set from a different direction. Majority of the people of >>>> South Africa know very well that Helen Zille represents the interests of >>>> some white people and play on their insecurities to secure votes and >>>> funding. Helen Zille has demonstrated in the decisions taken by the DA >>>> government in the Western Cape that she has not regard of black >>>> communities. The DA will never lead South Africa and no one in the >>>> movement should have such imaginations and because they are just >>>> that—IMAGINATIONS. >>>> >>>> The ANC Youth League will forever protect the right of all comrades in >>>> the movement to freely express themselves, but will always express our >>>> disagreements on issues that are said in an alarmist fashion. >>>> >>>> Issued by the ANC Youth League >>>> Contact Floyd Shivambu, ANC Youth League Spokesperson >>>> -- >>>> " Historical Materialism and dialectical Materialism are inseparable, >>>> they go together and survive along" >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You are subscribed. This footer can help you. >>>> Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply >>>> to this message. >>>> You can visit the group WEB SITE at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery >>>> options, pages, files and membership. >>>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email >>>> [email protected] . You don't have to put >>>> anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to put anything in the >>>> message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail to this address >>>> (repeat): [email protected] . >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Sibusiso Mimi >>> Mobile: +27 (0) 760211216 >>> [email protected] >>> >>> -- >>> You are subscribed. This footer can help you. >>> Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply >>> to this message. >>> You can visit the group WEB SITE at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery >>> options, pages, files and membership. >>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email >>> [email protected] . You don't have to put >>> anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to put anything in the >>> message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail to this address >>> (repeat): [email protected] . >>> >>> -- >>> You are subscribed. This footer can help you. >>> Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply >>> to this message. >>> You can visit the group WEB SITE at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery >>> options, pages, files and membership. >>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email >>> [email protected] . You don't have to put >>> anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to put anything in the >>> message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail to this address >>> (repeat): [email protected] . >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Mr Mmamadimo Ephraim "Thabo Mathiba >> >> Cell No:0849782879 >> Fax No:0865462214 >> Other Email:[email protected] >> >> -- >> You are subscribed. This footer can help you. >> Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to >> this message. >> You can visit the group WEB SITE at >> http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery >> options, pages, files and membership. >> To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email [email protected]. >> You don't have to put anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to >> put anything in the message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail to >> this address (repeat): [email protected] . >> >> -- >> You are subscribed. This footer can help you. >> Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to >> this message. >> You can visit the group WEB SITE at >> http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery >> options, pages, files and membership. >> To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email [email protected]. >> You don't have to put anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to >> put anything in the message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail to >> this address (repeat): [email protected] . >> > > > > -- > Blog at: http://domza.blogspot.com/ > Communist University web site at: http://amadlandawonye.wikispaces.com/ > Subscribe for free e-mail updates at: > http://groups.google.com/group/Communist-University/ > Library of documents (CU "CD") at: http://cu.domza.net/ > [email protected] > > -- > You are subscribed. This footer can help you. > Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to > this message. > You can visit the group WEB SITE at > http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery > options, pages, files and membership. > To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email [email protected]. > You don't have to put anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to > put anything in the message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail to > this address (repeat): [email protected] . > > -- > You are subscribed. This footer can help you. > Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to > this message. > You can visit the group WEB SITE at > http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery > options, pages, files and membership. > To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email [email protected]. > You don't have to put anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to > put anything in the message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail to > this address (repeat): [email protected] . > -- Blog at: http://domza.blogspot.com/ Communist University web site at: http://amadlandawonye.wikispaces.com/ Subscribe for free e-mail updates at: http://groups.google.com/group/Communist-University/ Library of documents (CU "CD") at: http://cu.domza.net/ [email protected] -- You are subscribed. This footer can help you. Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to this message. You can visit the group WEB SITE at http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery options, pages, files and membership. To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email [email protected] . You don't have to put anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to put anything in the message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail to this address (repeat): [email protected] . -- You are subscribed. This footer can help you. Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to this message. You can visit the group WEB SITE at http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery options, pages, files and membership. To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email [email protected] . You don't have to put anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to put anything in the message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail to this address (repeat): [email protected] .
