Go and read what Ruth First wrote about Libya in 1974. You will find that it has very strong lessons for South Africa today.
VC On 7 April 2011 13:16, <[email protected]> wrote: > Cde. I don't believe the discussion was about answers but more about > engaging views. You have yours I have mine. Again you display despot > characteristics by giving ultimatums on matters of opinion. Either I say u > are right or I go to Zille? Cde are u serious? You have moved from the > subject to attacking the author. Let's keep to the discussion. > > Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device > ------------------------------ > *From: * Dominic Tweedie <[email protected]> > *Sender: * [email protected] > *Date: *Thu, 7 Apr 2011 12:50:50 +0200 > *To: *<[email protected]> > *ReplyTo: * [email protected] > *Subject: *Re: [YCLSA Discussion] ANC YOUTH LEAGUE DISAGREES > WITHTHEOBSERVATIONSOF COSATU GENERAL SECRETARY ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT > ELECTIONS: > > > You have your tail between your legs! > > If you are a child, then be taught. > > If you want to defy, then defy. > > Otherwise, admit that you have no answers, and no character. > > Submit, or go to Auntie Zille. > > > VC > > > > On 7 April 2011 12:40, <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Comrade if we didn't spark debates from within such as this forum so that >> we can strengthen the chains then we shall be weakened from without. A child >> that asks his parent a question about the future is not disrespectful but >> shows interest in the family growth. U mentioning DA or that we join DA is >> simply acting like despot hence u used Libya as an example where the country >> is run by a family and not a socialist movement. Cde u need to listen >> without prejudice and help with info required,wielding a stick will not make >> arguments seem stronga but will expose your intolrence to the voices of the >> movement >> Amandla! >> >> Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device >> ------------------------------ >> *From: * Dominic Tweedie <[email protected]> >> *Sender: * [email protected] >> *Date: *Thu, 7 Apr 2011 12:26:51 +0200 >> *To: *<[email protected]> >> *ReplyTo: * [email protected] >> *Subject: *Re: [YCLSA Discussion] ANC YOUTH LEAGUE DISAGREES >> WITHTHEOBSERVATIONS OF COSATU GENERAL SECRETARY ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT >> ELECTIONS: >> >> >> I am surprised that so many of you comrades walk into the liberal trap so >> easily. >> >> Of course a government can never do "enough" under a bourgeois >> class-dictatorship. We know this >> >> Do you think it therefore follows that we need a different bourgeois >> government? If so, then go and join the DA! >> >> The whole "delivery" story is based on this fallacy. Why then are we >> beating our backs with a stick made by the DA? >> >> Worse, there are organised students who are attempting to drive the ANC >> into the same "delivery" corner. Instead of taking up the measures laid on >> by the Ministry of Higher Education to get more students into education, >> they denounce these as "not enough" and refuse to cooperate with them! They >> use same cheap jibes that the DA always uses. >> >> To my surprise I now see that on the day that the DTI has announced >> further measures of job creation, comrades on here are already denouncing >> them. >> >> "Delivery" is baby talk. "Delivery" is reformism, comrades. Why not think >> for a moment before you start trying to twist the ANC's arm up its back >> while the DA beats them up in front? Think whose cause you are furthering. >> >> Of course there can never be enough "delivery". Even in Libya, where the >> standard of living was higher than anywhere else in Africa, the Imperialists >> were easily able to find collaborators who were complaining about >> "delivery". >> >> Populists and reactionaries can always cry about delivery, *and they will >> always do so loudest exactly when there is delivery*! You check back and >> you will see what I mean. >> >> Now is the time to make a reality of IPAP2, Growth Path, and National >> Plan. Or else find yourselves tailing the right wing on the basis of >> fraudulent populist slogans about "delivery". Maybe some of you have started >> to believe them? Then make your choice accordingly, but the rest of you >> should rather try to build up some revolutionary political knowledge instead >> of running after "delivery" like idiots. >> >> >> VC >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On 7 April 2011 11:43, <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> I agree there are many displaced youth as well as many without >>> educational assistance though they got great grades. The argument that says >>> they've done this and that shouldn't be used as a debating tool because >>> ultimately all govt are voted into power with an expectation to deliver. It >>> is the rate of delivery that determines success >>> >>> Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From: * thabo mathiba <[email protected]> >>> *Sender: * [email protected] >>> *Date: *Thu, 7 Apr 2011 11:33:19 +0200 >>> *To: *<[email protected]> >>> *ReplyTo: * [email protected] >>> *Subject: *Re: [YCLSA Discussion] ANC YOUTH LEAGUE DISAGREES WITH >>> THEOBSERVATIONS OF COSATU GENERAL SECRETARY ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT ELECTIONS: >>> >>> indeed the goverment has tried buts its not enough,and i think we will >>> never see enough as long as our leaders continue putting their intrests >>> above that of citzen,the recent study by sairr that many of the youth in our >>> country at 24 years are doing nothing ,not at school,working or attending >>> any training of some sort is alarming.with that said south africa is still a >>> nice place to live in and alive with possibilieties if our leaders can do >>> what they where voted for. >>> >>> On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 11:03 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> If I may comrades, >>>> >>>> I think we must stop these little petty personal attacks but try and >>>> discuss the core issues of these statements. >>>> >>>> I know that the ruling party in partnership with its alliances have done >>>> a lot in SA. I think the real question to be asked is, IS IT ENOUGH. >>>> >>>> Has government done enough for everyone? The youth league has recently >>>> said that those who vote ANC are living heaven in earth or something along >>>> those lines, IS IT Really like that. >>>> >>>> Let us not stick our head in the sand and admit we can do better and do >>>> so. >>>> >>>> I close >>>> >>>> Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you! >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> *From: *Sibusiso Mimi <[email protected]> >>>> *Sender: *[email protected] >>>> *Date: *Thu, 7 Apr 2011 09:23:12 +0200 >>>> *To: *<[email protected]> >>>> *ReplyTo: *[email protected] >>>> *Cc: *Bongani Dlamini<[email protected]>; < >>>> [email protected]> >>>> *Subject: *Re: [YCLSA Discussion] ANC YOUTH LEAGUE DISAGREES WITH THE >>>> OBSERVATIONS OF COSATU GENERAL SECRETARY ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT ELECTIONS: >>>> >>>> This is embarrassing – this response is as if it was written in a night >>>> club – ZAR probably! Instead of engaging substantial issues, this response >>>> is rather childish in its view and contest the assertions made by cde Vavi >>>> but offers nothing. It is a drunken response to real issues facing our >>>> country one of which being mass unemployment and widening inequalities. It >>>> is no secret; the ANC is going into the local government elections >>>> contemplating real challenges such as entrenched corruption in local >>>> government, chronic poverty and many other social ills. >>>> >>>> >>>> I'm sure Cosatu is very much aware of the inroads made by the ANC since >>>> we came top power but you cant simply wish the current challenges away -- >>>> the ANCYL rather should make proposals on how to deal with the current >>>> challenges. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 12:41 AM, Bongani Dlamini < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> ANC YOUTH LEAGUE DISAGREES WITH THE OBSERVATIONS OF COSATU GENERAL >>>>> SECRETARY ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT ELECTIONS: >>>>> >>>>> 06 April 2011 >>>>> >>>>> The ANC Youth League disagrees with the remarks and observations of >>>>> COSATU General SecretaryZwelinzima Vavi on the upcoming Local >>>>> Government Elections. In his address to the NUMSA Bargaining Conference, >>>>> Comrade Vavi said that “We [ANC] are going into elections with our >>>>> tails between our legs. With our backs to the wall, because we have lost >>>>> 1,17million jobs and 5,8million families are plunged into poverty”. In the >>>>> same address, the General Secretary of COSATU further said there is a >>>>> possibility that we might soon call someone President Zille. >>>>> >>>>> The ANC Youth League does not agree that the ANC will go to local >>>>> government elections with its tail behind the legs, because contrary to >>>>> what >>>>> is implied, the ANC has done exceptionally well with regards to service >>>>> delivery. The ANC has provided water, electricity, roads, sanitation, >>>>> houses >>>>> and many other basic services to millions of people over the past 5 years. >>>>> Whilst we all accept that there is a problem of unemployment, it is wrong >>>>> to >>>>> blame unemployment and retrenchments on the ANC government, particularly >>>>> at >>>>> local level. The ANC goes into the local government elections with its >>>>> head >>>>> very high because we have fulfilled more than 80% of the promises made in >>>>> the 2006 Local Government Elections. >>>>> >>>>> The General Secretary of COSATU should understand better than anyone >>>>> that job losses that occurred because of the world economic recession >>>>> cannot >>>>> be blamed on the ANC, but on many other factors that are beyond the ANC’s >>>>> control. Instead of educating workers that job-losses are a result of >>>>> global >>>>> economic crisis, the General Secretary of COSATU implies that the ANC >>>>> is responsible for the job-losses. The ANC government carries a >>>>> responsibility of building sustainable livelihoods for all thepeople >>>>> of South Africa and is on track with regards to functions it can play. >>>>> There are also commendable efforts in the ANC to mobilise the whole of >>>>> society, particularly the private sector to create job opportunities >>>>> for majority of the people. These efforts should be appreciated, and >>>>> properly communicated because anything that creates the impression that >>>>> the >>>>> ANC is responsible for job-losses is misleading. >>>>> >>>>> An imagination that Helen Zille will ever be President of South Africa is >>>>> alarmist because Helen Zille will never be President of South Africa, even >>>>> if the sun can set from a different direction. Majority of the people of >>>>> South Africa know very well that Helen Zille represents the interests of >>>>> some white people and play on their insecurities to secure votes and >>>>> funding. Helen Zille has demonstrated in the decisions taken by the DA >>>>> government in the Western Cape that she has not regard of black >>>>> communities. The DA will never lead South Africa and no one in the >>>>> movement should have such imaginations and because they are just >>>>> that—IMAGINATIONS. >>>>> >>>>> The ANC Youth League will forever protect the right of all comrades in >>>>> the movement to freely express themselves, but will always express our >>>>> disagreements on issues that are said in an alarmist fashion. >>>>> >>>>> Issued by the ANC Youth League >>>>> Contact Floyd Shivambu, ANC Youth League Spokesperson >>>>> -- >>>>> " Historical Materialism and dialectical Materialism are inseparable, >>>>> they go together and survive along" >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You are subscribed. This footer can help you. >>>>> Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply >>>>> to this message. >>>>> You can visit the group WEB SITE at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery >>>>> options, pages, files and membership. >>>>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email >>>>> [email protected] . You don't have to put >>>>> anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to put anything in the >>>>> message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail to this address >>>>> (repeat): [email protected] . >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> Sibusiso Mimi >>>> Mobile: +27 (0) 760211216 >>>> [email protected] >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You are subscribed. This footer can help you. >>>> Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply >>>> to this message. >>>> You can visit the group WEB SITE at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery >>>> options, pages, files and membership. >>>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email >>>> [email protected] . You don't have to put >>>> anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to put anything in the >>>> message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail to this address >>>> (repeat): [email protected] . >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You are subscribed. This footer can help you. >>>> Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply >>>> to this message. >>>> You can visit the group WEB SITE at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery >>>> options, pages, files and membership. >>>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email >>>> [email protected] . You don't have to put >>>> anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to put anything in the >>>> message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail to this address >>>> (repeat): [email protected] . >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Mr Mmamadimo Ephraim "Thabo Mathiba >>> >>> Cell No:0849782879 >>> Fax No:0865462214 >>> Other Email:[email protected] >>> >>> -- >>> You are subscribed. This footer can help you. >>> Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply >>> to this message. >>> You can visit the group WEB SITE at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery >>> options, pages, files and membership. >>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email >>> [email protected] . You don't have to put >>> anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to put anything in the >>> message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail to this address >>> (repeat): [email protected] . >>> >>> -- >>> You are subscribed. This footer can help you. >>> Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply >>> to this message. >>> You can visit the group WEB SITE at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery >>> options, pages, files and membership. >>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email >>> [email protected] . You don't have to put >>> anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to put anything in the >>> message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail to this address >>> (repeat): [email protected] . >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Blog at: http://domza.blogspot.com/ >> Communist University web site at: http://amadlandawonye.wikispaces.com/ >> Subscribe for free e-mail updates at: >> http://groups.google.com/group/Communist-University/ >> Library of documents (CU "CD") at: http://cu.domza.net/ >> [email protected] >> >> -- >> You are subscribed. This footer can help you. >> Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to >> this message. >> You can visit the group WEB SITE at >> http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery >> options, pages, files and membership. >> To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email [email protected]. >> You don't have to put anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to >> put anything in the message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail to >> this address (repeat): [email protected] . >> >> -- >> You are subscribed. This footer can help you. >> Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to >> this message. >> You can visit the group WEB SITE at >> http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery >> options, pages, files and membership. >> To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email [email protected]. >> You don't have to put anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to >> put anything in the message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail to >> this address (repeat): [email protected] . >> > > > > -- > Blog at: http://domza.blogspot.com/ > Communist University web site at: http://amadlandawonye.wikispaces.com/ > Subscribe for free e-mail updates at: > http://groups.google.com/group/Communist-University/ > Library of documents (CU "CD") at: http://cu.domza.net/ > [email protected] > > -- > You are subscribed. This footer can help you. > Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to > this message. > You can visit the group WEB SITE at > http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery > options, pages, files and membership. > To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email [email protected]. > You don't have to put anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to > put anything in the message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail to > this address (repeat): [email protected] . > > -- > You are subscribed. This footer can help you. > Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to > this message. > You can visit the group WEB SITE at > http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery > options, pages, files and membership. > To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email [email protected]. > You don't have to put anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to > put anything in the message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail to > this address (repeat): [email protected] . > -- Blog at: http://domza.blogspot.com/ Communist University web site at: http://amadlandawonye.wikispaces.com/ Subscribe for free e-mail updates at: http://groups.google.com/group/Communist-University/ Library of documents (CU "CD") at: http://cu.domza.net/ [email protected] -- You are subscribed. This footer can help you. Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to this message. 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