Cde VC I think you are not assisting the discussion you cannot come out fire blazing an hope to drive your point successfully. I am disgusted at your utterance and surely should everyone who have had a pleasure of reading some of you empowering writings. For heaven sake you are a transcriber of one most powerful archive of politics ( Marxist Archive) and some of us hold you up with sincerity and value your thoughts. Yet I think you not doing your self and us who respect you with such posting. You are diverting from the basics of Bolsheviks on engagement.....
On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 1:21 PM, Dominic Tweedie <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Go and read what Ruth First wrote about Libya in 1974. > You will find that it has very strong lessons for South Africa today. > > VC > > > On 7 April 2011 13:16, <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Cde. I don't believe the discussion was about answers but more about >> engaging views. You have yours I have mine. Again you display despot >> characteristics by giving ultimatums on matters of opinion. Either I say u >> are right or I go to Zille? Cde are u serious? You have moved from the >> subject to attacking the author. Let's keep to the discussion. >> >> Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device >> >> ________________________________ >> From: Dominic Tweedie <[email protected]> >> Sender: [email protected] >> Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2011 12:50:50 +0200 >> To: <[email protected]> >> ReplyTo: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [YCLSA Discussion] ANC YOUTH LEAGUE DISAGREES >> WITHTHEOBSERVATIONSOF COSATU GENERAL SECRETARY ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT >> ELECTIONS: >> >> You have your tail between your legs! >> If you are a child, then be taught. >> If you want to defy, then defy. >> Otherwise, admit that you have no answers, and no character. >> Submit, or go to Auntie Zille. >> >> VC >> >> >> On 7 April 2011 12:40, <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Comrade if we didn't spark debates from within such as this forum so that >>> we can strengthen the chains then we shall be weakened from without. A child >>> that asks his parent a question about the future is not disrespectful but >>> shows interest in the family growth. U mentioning DA or that we join DA is >>> simply acting like despot hence u used Libya as an example where the country >>> is run by a family and not a socialist movement. Cde u need to listen >>> without prejudice and help with info required,wielding a stick will not make >>> arguments seem stronga but will expose your intolrence to the voices of the >>> movement >>> Amandla! >>> >>> Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> From: Dominic Tweedie <[email protected]> >>> Sender: [email protected] >>> Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2011 12:26:51 +0200 >>> To: <[email protected]> >>> ReplyTo: [email protected] >>> Subject: Re: [YCLSA Discussion] ANC YOUTH LEAGUE DISAGREES >>> WITHTHEOBSERVATIONS OF COSATU GENERAL SECRETARY ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT >>> ELECTIONS: >>> >>> I am surprised that so many of you comrades walk into the liberal trap so >>> easily. >>> Of course a government can never do "enough" under a bourgeois >>> class-dictatorship. We know this >>> Do you think it therefore follows that we need a different bourgeois >>> government? If so, then go and join the DA! >>> The whole "delivery" story is based on this fallacy. Why then are we >>> beating our backs with a stick made by the DA? >>> Worse, there are organised students who are attempting to drive the ANC >>> into the same "delivery" corner. Instead of taking up the measures laid on >>> by the Ministry of Higher Education to get more students into education, >>> they denounce these as "not enough" and refuse to cooperate with them! They >>> use same cheap jibes that the DA always uses. >>> To my surprise I now see that on the day that the DTI has announced >>> further measures of job creation, comrades on here are already denouncing >>> them. >>> "Delivery" is baby talk. "Delivery" is reformism, comrades. Why not think >>> for a moment before you start trying to twist the ANC's arm up its back >>> while the DA beats them up in front? Think whose cause you are furthering. >>> Of course there can never be enough "delivery". Even in Libya, where the >>> standard of living was higher than anywhere else in Africa, the Imperialists >>> were easily able to find collaborators who were complaining about >>> "delivery". >>> Populists and reactionaries can always cry about delivery, and they will >>> always do so loudest exactly when there is delivery! You check back and you >>> will see what I mean. >>> Now is the time to make a reality of IPAP2, Growth Path, and National >>> Plan. Or else find yourselves tailing the right wing on the basis of >>> fraudulent populist slogans about "delivery". Maybe some of you have started >>> to believe them? Then make your choice accordingly, but the rest of you >>> should rather try to build up some revolutionary political knowledge instead >>> of running after "delivery" like idiots. >>> >>> VC >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 7 April 2011 11:43, <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> I agree there are many displaced youth as well as many without >>>> educational assistance though they got great grades. The argument that says >>>> they've done this and that shouldn't be used as a debating tool because >>>> ultimately all govt are voted into power with an expectation to deliver. It >>>> is the rate of delivery that determines success >>>> >>>> Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device >>>> >>>> ________________________________ >>>> From: thabo mathiba <[email protected]> >>>> Sender: [email protected] >>>> Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2011 11:33:19 +0200 >>>> To: <[email protected]> >>>> ReplyTo: [email protected] >>>> Subject: Re: [YCLSA Discussion] ANC YOUTH LEAGUE DISAGREES WITH >>>> THEOBSERVATIONS OF COSATU GENERAL SECRETARY ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT ELECTIONS: >>>> indeed the goverment has tried buts its not enough,and i think we will >>>> never see enough as long as our leaders continue putting their intrests >>>> above that of citzen,the recent study by sairr that many of the youth in >>>> our >>>> country at 24 years are doing nothing ,not at school,working or attending >>>> any training of some sort is alarming.with that said south africa is still >>>> a >>>> nice place to live in and alive with possibilieties if our leaders can do >>>> what they where voted for. >>>> >>>> On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 11:03 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> If I may comrades, >>>>> >>>>> I think we must stop these little petty personal attacks but try and >>>>> discuss the core issues of these statements. >>>>> >>>>> I know that the ruling party in partnership with its alliances have >>>>> done a lot in SA. I think the real question to be asked is, IS IT ENOUGH. >>>>> >>>>> Has government done enough for everyone? The youth league has recently >>>>> said that those who vote ANC are living heaven in earth or something along >>>>> those lines, IS IT Really like that. >>>>> >>>>> Let us not stick our head in the sand and admit we can do better and do >>>>> so. >>>>> >>>>> I close >>>>> >>>>> Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you! >>>>> >>>>> ________________________________ >>>>> From: Sibusiso Mimi <[email protected]> >>>>> Sender: [email protected] >>>>> Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2011 09:23:12 +0200 >>>>> To: <[email protected]> >>>>> ReplyTo: [email protected] >>>>> Cc: Bongani Dlamini<[email protected]>; >>>>> <[email protected]> >>>>> Subject: Re: [YCLSA Discussion] ANC YOUTH LEAGUE DISAGREES WITH THE >>>>> OBSERVATIONS OF COSATU GENERAL SECRETARY ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT ELECTIONS: >>>>> >>>>> This is embarrassing – this response is as if it was written in a night >>>>> club – ZAR probably! Instead of engaging substantial issues, this response >>>>> is rather childish in its view and contest the assertions made by cde Vavi >>>>> but offers nothing. It is a drunken response to real issues facing our >>>>> country one of which being mass unemployment and widening inequalities. It >>>>> is no secret; the ANC is going into the local government elections >>>>> contemplating real challenges such as entrenched corruption in local >>>>> government, chronic poverty and many other social ills. >>>>> >>>>> I'm sure Cosatu is very much aware of the inroads made by the ANC since >>>>> we came top power but you cant simply wish the current challenges away -- >>>>> the ANCYL rather should make proposals on how to deal with the current >>>>> challenges. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 12:41 AM, Bongani Dlamini >>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> ANC YOUTH LEAGUE DISAGREES WITH THE OBSERVATIONS OF COSATU GENERAL >>>>>> SECRETARY ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT ELECTIONS: >>>>>> >>>>>> 06 April 2011 >>>>>> >>>>>> The ANC Youth League disagrees with the remarks and observations of >>>>>> COSATU General SecretaryZwelinzima Vavi on the upcoming Local Government >>>>>> Elections. In his address to the NUMSA Bargaining Conference, >>>>>> Comrade Vavi said that “We [ANC] are going into elections with our tails >>>>>> between our legs. With our backs to the wall, because we have lost >>>>>> 1,17million jobs and 5,8million families are plunged into poverty”. In >>>>>> the >>>>>> same address, the General Secretary of COSATU further said there is a >>>>>> possibility that we might soon call someone President Zille. >>>>>> >>>>>> The ANC Youth League does not agree that the ANC will go to local >>>>>> government elections with its tail behind the legs, because contrary to >>>>>> what >>>>>> is implied, the ANC has done exceptionally well with regards to service >>>>>> delivery. The ANC has provided water, electricity, roads, sanitation, >>>>>> houses >>>>>> and many other basic services to millions of people over the past 5 >>>>>> years. >>>>>> Whilst we all accept that there is a problem of unemployment, it is >>>>>> wrong to >>>>>> blame unemployment and retrenchments on the ANC government, particularly >>>>>> at >>>>>> local level. The ANC goes into the local government elections with its >>>>>> head >>>>>> very high because we have fulfilled more than 80% of the promises made in >>>>>> the 2006 Local Government Elections. >>>>>> >>>>>> The General Secretary of COSATU should understand better than anyone >>>>>> that job losses that occurred because of the world economic recession >>>>>> cannot >>>>>> be blamed on the ANC, but on many other factors that are beyond the ANC’s >>>>>> control. Instead of educating workers that job-losses are a result >>>>>> of global >>>>>> economic crisis, the General Secretary of COSATU implies that the ANC is >>>>>> responsible for the job-losses. The ANC government carries a >>>>>> responsibility >>>>>> of building sustainable livelihoods for all thepeople of South >>>>>> Africa and is >>>>>> on track with regards to functions it can play. There are also >>>>>> commendable >>>>>> efforts in the ANC to mobilise the whole of society, particularly >>>>>> the private sector to create job opportunities for majority of the >>>>>> people. >>>>>> These efforts should be appreciated, and properly communicated because >>>>>> anything that creates the impression that the ANC is responsible for >>>>>> job-losses is misleading. >>>>>> >>>>>> An imagination that Helen Zille will ever be President of South >>>>>> Africa is alarmist because Helen Zille will never be President of South >>>>>> Africa, even if the sun can set from a different direction. Majority of >>>>>> the >>>>>> people of South Africa know very well that Helen Zille represents the >>>>>> interests of some white people and play on their insecurities to secure >>>>>> votes and funding. Helen Zille has demonstrated in the decisions taken by >>>>>> the DA government in the Western Cape that she has not regard of black >>>>>> communities. The DA will never lead South Africa and no one in the >>>>>> movement >>>>>> should have such imaginations and because they are just >>>>>> that—IMAGINATIONS. >>>>>> >>>>>> The ANC Youth League will forever protect the right of all comrades in >>>>>> the movement to freely express themselves, but will always express our >>>>>> disagreements on issues that are said in an alarmist fashion. >>>>>> >>>>>> Issued by the ANC Youth League >>>>>> Contact Floyd Shivambu, ANC Youth League Spokesperson >>>>>> -- >>>>>> " Historical Materialism and dialectical Materialism are inseparable, >>>>>> they go together and survive along" >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You are subscribed. This footer can help you. >>>>>> Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply >>>>>> to this message. >>>>>> You can visit the group WEB SITE at >>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery >>>>>> options, pages, files and membership. >>>>>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email >>>>>> [email protected] . You don't have to put >>>>>> anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to put anything in the >>>>>> message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail to this address >>>>>> (repeat): [email protected] . >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> Sibusiso Mimi >>>>> Mobile: +27 (0) 760211216 >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You are subscribed. This footer can help you. >>>>> Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply >>>>> to this message. >>>>> You can visit the group WEB SITE at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery >>>>> options, pages, files and membership. >>>>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email >>>>> [email protected] . You don't have to put >>>>> anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to put anything in the >>>>> message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail to this address >>>>> (repeat): [email protected] . >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You are subscribed. This footer can help you. >>>>> Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply >>>>> to this message. >>>>> You can visit the group WEB SITE at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery >>>>> options, pages, files and membership. >>>>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email >>>>> [email protected] . You don't have to put >>>>> anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to put anything in the >>>>> message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail to this address >>>>> (repeat): [email protected] . >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Mr Mmamadimo Ephraim "Thabo Mathiba >>>> >>>> Cell No:0849782879 >>>> Fax No:0865462214 >>>> Other Email:[email protected] >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You are subscribed. This footer can help you. >>>> Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply >>>> to this message. >>>> You can visit the group WEB SITE at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery >>>> options, pages, files and membership. >>>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email >>>> [email protected] . You don't have to put >>>> anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to put anything in the >>>> message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail to this address >>>> (repeat): [email protected] . >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You are subscribed. This footer can help you. >>>> Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply >>>> to this message. >>>> You can visit the group WEB SITE at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery >>>> options, pages, files and membership. >>>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email >>>> [email protected] . You don't have to put >>>> anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to put anything in the >>>> message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail to this address >>>> (repeat): [email protected] . >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Blog at: http://domza.blogspot.com/ >>> Communist University web site at: http://amadlandawonye.wikispaces.com/ >>> Subscribe for free e-mail updates at: >>> http://groups.google.com/group/Communist-University/ >>> Library of documents (CU "CD") at: http://cu.domza.net/ >>> [email protected] >>> >>> -- >>> You are subscribed. This footer can help you. >>> Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to >>> this message. >>> You can visit the group WEB SITE at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery >>> options, pages, files and membership. >>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email [email protected] >>> . You don't have to put anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to >>> put anything in the message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail to >>> this address (repeat): [email protected] . >>> >>> -- >>> You are subscribed. This footer can help you. >>> Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to >>> this message. >>> You can visit the group WEB SITE at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery >>> options, pages, files and membership. >>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email [email protected] >>> . You don't have to put anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to >>> put anything in the message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail to >>> this address (repeat): [email protected] . >> >> >> >> -- >> Blog at: http://domza.blogspot.com/ >> Communist University web site at: http://amadlandawonye.wikispaces.com/ >> Subscribe for free e-mail updates at: >> http://groups.google.com/group/Communist-University/ >> Library of documents (CU "CD") at: http://cu.domza.net/ >> [email protected] >> >> -- >> You are subscribed. This footer can help you. >> Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to >> this message. >> You can visit the group WEB SITE at >> http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery >> options, pages, files and membership. >> To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email [email protected] >> . You don't have to put anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to >> put anything in the message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail to >> this address (repeat): [email protected] . >> >> -- >> You are subscribed. This footer can help you. >> Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to >> this message. >> You can visit the group WEB SITE at >> http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery >> options, pages, files and membership. >> To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email [email protected] >> . You don't have to put anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to >> put anything in the message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail to >> this address (repeat): [email protected] . > > > > -- > Blog at: http://domza.blogspot.com/ > Communist University web site at: http://amadlandawonye.wikispaces.com/ > Subscribe for free e-mail updates at: > http://groups.google.com/group/Communist-University/ > Library of documents (CU "CD") at: http://cu.domza.net/ > [email protected] > > -- > You are subscribed. This footer can help you. > Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to > this message. > You can visit the group WEB SITE at > http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery > options, pages, files and membership. > To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email [email protected] . > You don't have to put anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to > put anything in the message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail to > this address (repeat): [email protected] . > -- You are subscribed. This footer can help you. Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to this message. You can visit the group WEB SITE at http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery options, pages, files and membership. To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email [email protected] . You don't have to put anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to put anything in the message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail to this address (repeat): [email protected] .
