Al,

I think if you'd reread some of the Zen literature, especially koans, 
you'll quickly see that what these people are talking about is 
exactly 'JUST SIT or JUST TAKE A SHIT or JUST FUCK or JUST DIE'.

Morals, ideals, etc... are all illusions.  Why do we have them?  I 
don't really know, but I SUSPECT (opinion warning!) that we have them 
because they make us feel good.  They make us feel like the universe 
is orderly and, through understanding with our rational mind, we can 
have some kind of control over our lives.  That's generally what 
religions are for - to make us feel like we have some control over 
our lives and destinies.  All of this is illusion - maya.

Why do you think we have morals and ideals?

...Bill!

--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Fitness63" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> From: mike brown The only thing that is real is this moment now 
(JUST THIS! 
> ala Bill!)- nothing else exists outside of it. Nothing can exist 
outside of 
> it. Anything else is just wishful thinking and obscures a direct 
experience 
> of THIS. The simpleness of Zen is not disappointing (or "lame-
O" :) !), but 
> liberates us from delusional thinking - and hence, unhappiness. 
Could 
> ultimate reality really be anything morer than just pure 
simplicity? >
> 
> Shit yeah. JUST THIS is pretty fucking lame-O. Striving to JUST SIT 
or JUST 
> TAKE A SHIT or JUST FUCK or JUST DIE is really ultimately fucking 
lame.
> 
> That's just my lame-O opinion, but just walking in the park is 
great fun but 
> if that's it then why have morals, why have ideals, why have 
anything? I 
> don't think that Zen is just be an animal and live at the same 
level as your 
> dog or cat.
> 
> I don't think Zen is just to be a droid-like animal with your mouth 
agape, 
> thankful that JUST THIS exists and your are temporarily part of 
JUST THAT.
>



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