Good point. Nothing is a waste of time to those who are actually in the real Zen world. Zazen is only a potential waste of time to those who are not yet in the true Zen world and are still trying to get there. Waste of time is relative to achieving the goal of satori. When the goal is achieved there is no more wasting time and of course there is no more 'goal'.


On Sep 30, 2008, at 10:17 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Edgar! I'm surprised and disappointed with this response.

How is it you think doing anything is 'just a waste of time'?


From: [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Edgar Owen
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 8:27 AM
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: What's after Satori


Very precise and to the point description. More evidence that sitting in a
monastery doing zazen for years is often just a waste of time.


On Sep 29, 2008, at 7:37 AM, roloro1557 wrote:

One way I can describe my experience of Satori is that it was a
complete obliteration of all the overlays on my consciousness:
language, thought, future, past, role (wife, mother, etc). Even my
body disappeared (female, sore left arm, whether I was dressed, etc).
All the overlays foisted on me by culture, other people and my own
ego-self just completely fell away in an instant. I didn't even know
I'd had Satori until years later. I knew something "big" or extremely
unusual had happened to me, but I had no words for it. I've never even
discussed it until the last few years. But at the same time I never
forgot it...I don't mean I thought about it all the time - it was just
there quietly in the background.

After Satori the genie is out of the bottle, so to speak. One goes
back to "ordinary" life, even though one's life can never be
"ordinary" again. It's a paradigm shift. One goes back to "ordinary"
life with one's view of life radically and irrevocably changed.

After Satori???
I fixed breakfast.

Margie (roloro1557)

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