Hi Anthony, Anytime.
Mike. ----- Original Message ---- From: Anthony Wu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, 16 October, 2008 11:05:25 Subject: Re: [Zen] Practical aspects of Causality Thank you , Mike. Regards, Anthony --- On Thu, 16/10/08, mike brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED] co.uk> wrote: From: mike brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED] co.uk> Subject: Re: [Zen] Practical aspects of Causality To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com Date: Thursday, 16 October, 2008, 8:38 AM Hi Anthony, I'm not sure what I can help you with. You seem to be going through a period of soul-searching and asking yourself questions relating to morality, how to achieve world peace and various questions relating to religion. We all do. No-one else can piss for you and no-one else can give you the answers to these questions. You are, however, in a good position to start some kind of answer seeking. As Bill! said, first you need to work on yourself. In fact that is all you can do. Sit. Start meditating for short periods and lengthen them gradually. First of all, aim to sit quietly just feeling the air enter your nose and leave your nose. Don't count your breath - this is like a mantra and is great for putting you in a trance, but cuts you off from your body. Don't suppress your thoughts, but at the same time don't follow them either. Keep coming back to the feeling of the breath entering and leaving your nose. If you sit like this for a while you will come to understand the meaning of the great Serenity prayer: O God, give us serenity to accept what cannot be changed, courage to change what should be changed, and wisdom to distinguish the one from the other. This can only be understood subjectively. In other words, only by YOU! If you feel you need to go to Africa - go. If you feel you can be an example to others by transforming your lifestyle - don't go. But be led by your own innate wisdom - not by others. Mike. ----- Original Message ---- From: Anthony Wu <[EMAIL PROTECTED] com.sg> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com Sent: Thursday, 16 October, 2008 8:52:53 Subject: Re: [Zen] Practical aspects of Causality If that is not simple enough. Here we go: I cannot do anything on my own. I need your help. Regards Anthony --- On Thu, 16/10/08, mike brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED] co.uk> wrote: From: mike brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED] co.uk> Subject: Re: [Zen] Practical aspects of Causality To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com Date: Thursday, 16 October, 2008, 7:27 AM Hi Anthony, Ok, I'm waiting. When are you going to put it in simple bloody English? Mike ----- Original Message ---- From: Anthony Wu <[EMAIL PROTECTED] com.sg> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com Sent: Thursday, 16 October, 2008 7:59:00 Subject: Re: [Zen] Practical aspects of Causality Mike, To put it in simple bloody English, I cannot convince myself that a world without morality is still as peaceful as we have law and order. You can say a certain kind of morality is wrong. OK, what is your right morality? Make revolution and overthrow the old one and establish a new morality. During your revolution, there is turmoil. But after that, there will be peace for a period of time. That is history. You cannot have peace from the big bang to doomsday. Regards, Anthony --- On Thu, 16/10/08, mike brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED] co.uk> wrote: From: mike brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED] co.uk> Subject: Re: [Zen] Practical aspects of Causality To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com Date: Thursday, 16 October, 2008, 6:37 AM Hi Anthony. What can't you do by yourself? Mike. ----- Original Message ---- From: Anthony Wu <[EMAIL PROTECTED] com.sg> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com Sent: Wednesday, 15 October, 2008 19:15:43 Subject: Re: [Zen] Practical aspects of Causality Hi Mike, I am not yet convinced, and I don't think I can do it myself. So I need help. You cannot do everything on your own. Things second hand may be useful. Regards, Anthony --- On Wed, 15/10/08, mike brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED] co.uk> wrote: From: mike brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED] co.uk> Subject: Re: [Zen] Practical aspects of Causality To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com Date: Wednesday, 15 October, 2008, 6:07 PM Hi Anthony, I'm afraid you're going to have to convince yourself. Morality gleaned vicariously or from second-hand sources has no depth, no lasting power, is fickle and therefore not valid. As Buddha said, be your own guiding lamp. Mike. ----- Original Message ---- From: Anthony Wu <[EMAIL PROTECTED] com.sg> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com Sent: Wednesday, 15 October, 2008 18:55:10 Subject: Re: [Zen] Practical aspects of Causality Hi Mike, I am waiting to be convinced that without morality we can still live in peace. Regards, Anthony --- On Wed, 15/10/08, mike brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED] co.uk> wrote: From: mike brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED] co.uk> Subject: Re: [Zen] Practical aspects of Causality To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com Date: Wednesday, 15 October, 2008, 11:38 AM Hi Anthony, You argue so strongly about morality, and the perceived lack of it in Zen, so can you tell us - what exactly are you doing about the issues you mentioned below? Mike. ----- Original Message ---- From: Anthony Wu <[EMAIL PROTECTED] com.sg> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com Sent: Wednesday, 15 October, 2008 8:24:30 Subject: RE: [Zen] Practical aspects of Causality Dear Digression, That is what I expected to be your answer: there is no suffering to save. How about starving African people, those who go through tortures, political oppression, rape victims, bereaved family, etc etc? Do we just stand by to laugh? I expect your answer to be: teach those people to get rid of attachment to the suffering. Right? Regards, Anthony --- On Tue, 14/10/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] org <[EMAIL PROTECTED] org> wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] org <[EMAIL PROTECTED] org> Subject: RE: [Zen] Practical aspects of Causality To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com Date: Tuesday, 14 October, 2008, 7:14 PM Anthony, 'Digression' is my middle name! See my responses embedded below: >A hammer hitting a toe occurs every day and everywhere in the world, >resulting in a lot suffering. How does zen address this problem? Pain is not what Buddhism means when it talks about suffering. Pain is pain. OUCH! Suffering, in the Buddhist sense, is the result of attachment - wanting things. It is this suffering that Buddhism seeks to end. Not pain. OUCH! (Of course if you were not ATTACHED (physically attached) to your toe, then hitting it wouldn't hurt, would it? But, if you were not attached to your toe, would it still be YOUR toe? Maybe you've come up with a new koan. Cool!) >Many zen masters still remember the origin of zen, which is >mahayana Buddhism has a root vow of Bodhisatva to save all >sentient beings in the world. I have trouble seeing that reconciled >with the non duality. If you see that all attachments and therefore suffering is illusory, then you have 'saved yourself' (Hinayana), and in doing so you have destroyed the dualism that separates 'you' from 'others' and have therefore already saved 'all sentient beings' (Mahayana), and doing this enables you to realize there were no sentient beings and no saving action that had to be done in the first place (Zen), and that there only ever was, is and will be Just THIS! (zen) >If causality is illusory, are there rules that govern human behavior, >such as karma, in place of God, so that man have to think twice, before >they commit evil deeds? My experience and opinion is that causality is illusory; so there are no rules that govern human behavior, no karma, and no God. If you think once, much less twice, you are already lost! ...Bill! ________________________________ Get your new Email address! Grab the Email name you've always wanted before someone else does! ________________________________ Get your new Email address! Grab the Email name you've always wanted before someone else does! ________________________________ New Email names for you! Get the Email name you've always wanted on the new @ymail and @rocketmail. Hurry before someone else does! ________________________________ Try cool new emoticons, skins, plus more space for friends. Download Yahoo! Messenger Singapore now. ________________________________ New Email addresses available on Yahoo! Get the Email name you've always wanted on the new @ymail and @rocketmail. Hurry before someone else does! ________________________________ Get your preferred Email name! Now you can @ymail.com and @rocketmail. .com.