Bill,
 
I understand this.  And I don't have a belief on this, nor would it matter if I 
did.  But you can't argue a point in the abstract. You, yourself have stated 
that you are frozen  in this position, though you well know that being frozen 
in any belief, "experience", behavior, act, thought, and so on-- is not zen.
 
Believe me-- I "get it" more than you realize. I understand what you  mean.  
But we are all blind to  our own shadows-- to a degree.  Even Buddha, I 
suspect, had some shadowy corners.  
 
I think what I meant in my initial comment  is that your insistance on "just 
this" is a belief .  Some people think gravity is a theory.  When your butt 
rises off the cushion, lets do lunch and chat.
 
Kristy
 


--- On Thu, 1/13/11, Bill! <billsm...@hhs1963.org> wrote:


From: Bill! <billsm...@hhs1963.org>
Subject: Re: [Zen] Differences Tao/Chan, which older
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, January 13, 2011, 5:51 PM


  



Kristy,

Just THIS is my attempt to communicate direct experience.

Whether you believe that or not is up to you.

...Bill! 

--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Kristy McClain <healthyplay1@...> wrote:
>
> Bill,
>  
> I disagree.  It is your belief about  your experience.
>  
> Kristy
> 
> 
> --- On Thu, 1/13/11, Bill! <BillSmart@...> wrote:
> 
> 
> From: Bill! <BillSmart@...>
> Subject: Re: [Zen] Differences Tao/Chan, which older
> To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thursday, January 13, 2011, 5:13 PM
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
> 
> Just THIS is not a belief, it is experience...Bill!
> 
> --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Kristy McClain <healthyplay1@> wrote:
> >
> > So is "just this".  k ;)
> > 
> > --- On Thu, 1/13/11, Bill! <BillSmart@> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > From: Bill! <BillSmart@>
> > Subject: Re: [Zen] Differences Tao/Chan, which older
> > To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Thursday, January 13, 2011, 4:05 AM
> > 
> > 
> >   
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Science is a belief system...Bill!
> > 
> > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 
> > 覺妙精æËÅ"Ž <chan.jmjm@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello TMSO,
> > > 
> > > I would say both are NOT believe systems.
> > > 
> > > From my limited understanding, Tao is a system, or school well 
> > > documented. It primarily focuses on attaining immortality. I mean with 
> > > herbs, exercises, etc. etc.
> > > 
> > > Chan is just a nick name for the entire universe for thousands of 
> > > years. I was curious to its origin many years ago. I dug here and 
> > > there and could not find an answer. Even Wikipedia stated, if I 
> > > remember correctly, "the original of Chan can not be traced."
> > > 
> > > Chan did not have an official teaching order until BodhiDharma showed 
> > > up. But my teacher often pointed out how incomplete are some of the 
> > > Buddhist interpretation.
> > > 
> > > Our school is really about direct, really is direct, experience. That's 
> > > all.
> > > 
> > > Sorry, these are my best answers. JM
> > > 
> > > Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can
> > > http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com
> > > http://www.heartchan.org
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On 1/12/2011 2:57 PM, taomtnsage1 wrote:
> > > >
> > > > To Jue Miao Jing Ming- Could you please tell me some of the 
> > > > differences between Tao and Chan. Also, which belief system developed 
> > > > first. Thanks for your help...taomtnsage1@ 
> > > > <mailto:help...taomtnsage1%40yahoo.com>
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>









      

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