Bill, My following comment is a mixture of joke and seriousness: You say: I was taught to arch my tongue slightly so that it touches the roof of my mouth, and create a slight vacuum in my mouth to keep it there. To create a vacuum, you need to hold you tongue and seal it firmly. I recommend silicone or polysulfide sealant to assist you. By the way, is this technique necessary? You say: I was taught to focus my awareness on my 'hara', a spot on your belly about 3-finger widths below your navel. Is the focus necessary? Zen Master Seung Sahn says it is important only to be alert and calm. Concentration or not is not essential. So one of his technique is: saying to yourself, 'clear mind, clear mind...' when breathing in; and 'don't know, don't know...' when breathing out. His ''keep a don't know mind' is aimed at combatting discriminating, I think. On the other hand, focusing is essential in Theravada Samadhi. They call it one-pointedness. That is Sakymuni's original teaching on anapanasati. You say: I wouldn't say Zen 'emphasizes' enlightenment in this lifetime, but it certainly acknowledges that as a possibility. Tibetan Tantra does emphasize enlightenment in this lifetime. They do it at all costs, inclusing using a sex ritual. By the same token, you can get enlightened in an orgyhouse. What a wonderful world. Anthony
--- On Tue, 25/1/11, Bill! <[email protected]> wrote: From: Bill! <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Zen] Is Chan Buddhist? To: [email protected] Date: Tuesday, 25 January, 2011, 3:23 PM Deborah and JMJM, I'll insert my comments about what I was taught in my Japanese Zen Buddhist training: --- In [email protected], Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 <chan.jmjm@...> wrote: > > Hi Deborah, > > Thank you for the question. I don't know Zen Buddhism enough to compare > in detail. In words, I seem to sense that Chan and Zen are rather > similar. The difference I noticed could be in the practice, such as > some of the following: > > Chan sit with eyes fully closed. Zen with half open. > Chan does not do walking. There is walking Zen. > Chan sit 45 to 60 minutes. Zen seems to be around 30 minutes. > Chan sit with tongue curled. There is no such mention in Zen. I was taught to arch my tongue slightly so that it touches the roof of my mouth, and create a slight vacuum in my mouth to keep it there. > Chan sit flat on floor. Zen uses cushions. > Chan demand a minimum of half lotus. Not sure about Zen. I was taught any position is okay as long as it thrusts your hips forward and keeps your back straight to free up your abdomen to promote belly-breathing, and is reasonable comfortable. Japanese do have a kneeling position that they teach sometimes using a little stool to kind of half-sit on. > Chan sit to focus on 10 chakras and 3 chi channels. Not sure about Zen. I was taught to focus my awareness on my 'hara', a spot on your belly about 3-finger widths below your navel. > Chan emphasizes enlightenment in this life time. Not sure about Zen. I wouldn't say Zen 'emphasizes' enlightenment in this lifetime, but it certainly acknowledges that as a possibility. > > On the other hand, the Chan that I practice, may not be the Chan other > Chinese lineage practice. > > Yet I would emphasize, that everyone of us, who is practicing, is a > blessed one, no matter which path we are on. Yet, the path that we are > on are driven by our own karma. I was taught something pretty similar, but I now recognize the concept of karma to be illusory. But that's just me - not Zen Buddhism proper. > > :-) > > Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can > http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com > http://www.heartchan.org > > > On 1/24/2011 7:59 PM, Deborah Mingins wrote: > > JMJM- can you tell us how Chan Buddhism and Zen Buddhism are > > different.....thanks....Deborah > > taomtnsage1@... <mailto:taomtnsage1@... > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* Deborah Mingins taomtnsage1@... > > *To:* [email protected] > > *Sent:* Mon, January 24, 2011 3:58:42 PM > > *Subject:* Re: [Zen] Is Chan Buddhist? > > > > To JMJM- You say that true practice begins after awakening. What is > > this true practice in Chan ie not Chan Buddhism > > .taomtnsage1@... <mailto:.taomtnsage1@... > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* Brett Corbin brettalancorbin@... > > *To:* [email protected] > > *Sent:* Sun, January 23, 2011 11:41:00 PM > > *Subject:* Re: [Zen] Is Chan Buddhist? > > > > I like some of the statements in this post. For me, I believe the > > truth is inside us all. I feel the reason so many miss the truth is > > due to the following of others interpretation of the truth rather then > > finding the truth within them selves. I hear a lot of people saying, > > my teacher said this, and my teacher said that, or a book said this or > > that, or Buddha said this or Jesus said that. I believe that is why > > there is so much division in religions and belief systems. I feel if > > people listened to the truth that is already in them, and not so much > > to teaching of so called, enlighten ones, there would be why more > > unity in this world. > > > > Brett > > http://www.pbase.com/brett1963 > > > > --- On *Sun, 1/23/11, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 > > /chan.jmjm@.../* wrote: > > > > > > From: Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 chan.jmjm@... > > Subject: Re: [Zen] Is Chan Buddhist? > > To: [email protected] > > Date: Sunday, January 23, 2011, 7:57 PM > > > > > > > > Hello Anthony, > > > > My Teacher, enlightened Chan Master WuJue MiaoTian is the 85th > > Patriarch since Shakyamuni, 58th since BodhiDharma and 48th of > > LinJie. I am the Head Teacher of the 86th generations. > > > > Are these titles meaningful? Absolutely not. Awakening got to > > arise from inside of us and not from words I posted. All we have > > to do is to shut up, sit down and stop thinking. > > > > My Teacher is enlightened to the same universal truth, which > > Shakyamuni is enlightened to, which he also teaches all of us to > > be enlightened to. In China, we call that Chan. Chan has been in > > China far longer than Shakymuni. It was so without organization or > > structure. > > > > In other words, all of us can be enlightened to the same universal > > truth of Chan, with or without a journey through Buddhism. > > > > Bill's Zen is a very clear path to the same truth, as he has > > continuously to state so. We all can, as long as we sit down, > > shut up and stop thinking. > > > > :-) > > > > Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can > > http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com/ > > http://www.heartchan.org/ > > > > > > On 1/23/2011 3:41 PM, Anthony Wu wrote: > >> JM, > >> Is your teacher higher than Sakyamuni? At least one 'person' > >> claims so. Mr Li Hongzhi, leader of Falun Gong, is now in the > >> USA. He may knock on your door any moment, and teach you > >> something better than Chan/ > >> Anthony > >> > >> --- On *Sun, 23/1/11, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 > >> /chan.jmjm@... > >> <http://us.mc1217.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=chan.jmjm@.../* > >> wrote: > >> > >> > >> From: Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 chan.jmjm@... > >> <http://us.mc1217.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=chan.jmjm@... > >> Subject: [Zen] Is Chan Buddhist? > >> To: [email protected] > >> <http://us.mc1217.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected], > >> [email protected] > >> <http://us.mc1217.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected], > >> [email protected] > >> <http://us.mc1217.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] > >> Date: Sunday, 23 January, 2011, 9:03 AM > >> > >> Good Day To All, > >> > >> My Teacher would say, "the Order of Chan is Buddhist, but the > >> witness of > >> Chan is not." > >> > >> Chan is just a nickname for the entire universe, including > >> the visible > >> and the invisible, the energy and its form, the perpetual and > >> the > >> transient, the big and the small, as well as all of its > >> nature. It is > >> always in a state of dynamic balance, always evolving, as > >> well as > >> integrating. > >> > >> Shakyamuni, Confucious, Lao Tze and many other sages all > >> witnessed the > >> truth of the universe, or Chan, and began their teaching. > >> > >> All schools of teaching are about the same truth, because all > >> are part > >> of universe and contains the same nature of the universe. > >> This is also > >> the nature of man and of all beings big and small. > >> > >> Awaken to the universal truth is just the beginning. My > >> Teacher often > >> remind us, "True practice begins after awakening." > >> > >> We practice to be totally, completely, wholesomely, > >> physically, mentally > >> and spiritually one with the entire universe, without exception, > >> preference or selection. Such that we could live in sync with > >> our > >> original abilities to harmonize, to balance, to evolve and to > >> integrate. > >> > >> This is what I was taught and have witnessed. > >> > >> Thank you for your time. > >> JMJM > >> > >> -- > >> Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can > >> http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com/ > >> http://www.heartchan.org/ > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
