Anthony, Thanks for commenting on my post. Humor is always welcome.
The only comment I have is that focusing on the hara is taught when beginning to learn to sit - used in a similar way as koans. You are correct that in shikantaza there is no focusing, in fact it is a complete de-focusing. ...Bill! --- In [email protected], Anthony Wu <wuasg@...> wrote: > > Bill, >  > My following comment is a mixture of joke and seriousness: >  > You say: > I was taught to arch my tongue slightly so that it touches the roof of my > mouth, and create a slight vacuum in my mouth to keep it there. >  > To create a vacuum, you need to hold you tongue and seal it firmly. I > recommend silicone or polysulfide sealant to assist you. By the way, is this > technique necessary? >  > You say: > I was taught to focus my awareness on my 'hara', a spot on your belly about > 3-finger widths below your navel. >  > Is the focus necessary? Zen Master Seung Sahn says it is important only to be > alert and calm. Concentration or not is not essential. So one of his > technique is: saying to yourself, 'clear mind, clear mind...' when breathing > in; and 'don't know, don't know...' when breathing out. His ''keep a don't > know mind' is aimed at combatting discriminating, I think. >  > On the other hand, focusing is essential in Theravada Samadhi. They call it > one-pointedness. That is Sakymuni's original teaching on anapanasati. >  > You say: > I wouldn't say Zen 'emphasizes' enlightenment in this lifetime, but it > certainly acknowledges that as a possibility. >  > Tibetan Tantra does emphasize enlightenment in this lifetime. They do it at > all costs, inclusing using a sex ritual. By the same token, you can get > enlightened in an orgyhouse. What a wonderful world. >  > Anthony > > > --- On Tue, 25/1/11, Bill! <BillSmart@...> wrote: > > > From: Bill! <BillSmart@...> > Subject: Re: [Zen] Is Chan Buddhist? > To: [email protected] > Date: Tuesday, 25 January, 2011, 3:23 PM > > >  > > > > > Deborah and JMJM, > I'll insert my comments about what I was taught in my Japanese Zen Buddhist > training: > > --- In [email protected], Jue Miao Jing Ming - > 覺å¦â¢Ã§Â²Â¾Ã¦ËŽ <chan.jmjm@> wrote: > > > > Hi Deborah, > > > > Thank you for the question. I don't know Zen Buddhism enough to compare > > in detail. In words, I seem to sense that Chan and Zen are rather > > similar. The difference I noticed could be in the practice, such as > > some of the following: > > > > Chan sit with eyes fully closed. Zen with half open. > > Chan does not do walking. There is walking Zen. > > Chan sit 45 to 60 minutes. Zen seems to be around 30 minutes. > > Chan sit with tongue curled. There is no such mention in Zen. > I was taught to arch my tongue slightly so that it touches the roof of my > mouth, and create a slight vacuum in my mouth to keep it there. > > Chan sit flat on floor. Zen uses cushions. > > Chan demand a minimum of half lotus. Not sure about Zen. > I was taught any position is okay as long as it thrusts your hips forward and > keeps your back straight to free up your abdomen to promote belly-breathing, > and is reasonable comfortable. Japanese do have a kneeling position that > they teach sometimes using a little stool to kind of half-sit on. > > > Chan sit to focus on 10 chakras and 3 chi channels. Not sure about Zen. > I was taught to focus my awareness on my 'hara', a spot on your belly about > 3-finger widths below your navel. > > Chan emphasizes enlightenment in this life time. Not sure about Zen. > I wouldn't say Zen 'emphasizes' enlightenment in this lifetime, but it > certainly acknowledges that as a possibility. > > > > On the other hand, the Chan that I practice, may not be the Chan other > > Chinese lineage practice. > > > > Yet I would emphasize, that everyone of us, who is practicing, is a > > blessed one, no matter which path we are on. Yet, the path that we are > > on are driven by our own karma. > I was taught something pretty similar, but I now recognize the concept of > karma to be illusory. But that's just me - not Zen Buddhism proper. > > > > :-) > > > > Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can > > http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com > > http://www.heartchan.org > > > > > > On 1/24/2011 7:59 PM, Deborah Mingins wrote: > > > JMJM- can you tell us how Chan Buddhism and Zen Buddhism are > > > different.....thanks....Deborah > > > taomtnsage1@ <mailto:taomtnsage1@ > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > *From:* Deborah Mingins taomtnsage1@ > > > *To:* [email protected] > > > *Sent:* Mon, January 24, 2011 3:58:42 PM > > > *Subject:* Re: [Zen] Is Chan Buddhist? > > > > > > To JMJM- You say that true practice begins after awakening. What is > > > this true practice in Chan ie not Chan Buddhism > > > .taomtnsage1@ <mailto:.taomtnsage1@ > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > *From:* Brett Corbin brettalancorbin@ > > > *To:* [email protected] > > > *Sent:* Sun, January 23, 2011 11:41:00 PM > > > *Subject:* Re: [Zen] Is Chan Buddhist? > > > > > > I like some of the statements in this post. For me, I believe the > > > truth is inside us all. I feel the reason so many miss the truth is > > > due to the following of others interpretation of the truth rather then > > > finding the truth within them selves. I hear a lot of people saying, > > > my teacher said this, and my teacher said that, or a book said this or > > > that, or Buddha said this or Jesus said that. I believe that is why > > > there is so much division in religions and belief systems. I feel if > > > people listened to the truth that is already in them, and not so much > > > to teaching of so called, enlighten ones, there would be why more > > > unity in this world. > > > > > > Brett > > > http://www.pbase.com/brett1963 > > > > > > --- On *Sun, 1/23/11, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺å¦â¢Ã§Â²Â¾Ã¦ËŽ > > > /chan.jmjm@/* wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺å¦â¢Ã§Â²Â¾Ã¦ËŽ chan.jmjm@ > > > Subject: Re: [Zen] Is Chan Buddhist? > > > To: [email protected] > > > Date: Sunday, January 23, 2011, 7:57 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Anthony, > > > > > > My Teacher, enlightened Chan Master WuJue MiaoTian is the 85th > > > Patriarch since Shakyamuni, 58th since BodhiDharma and 48th of > > > LinJie. I am the Head Teacher of the 86th generations. > > > > > > Are these titles meaningful? Absolutely not. Awakening got to > > > arise from inside of us and not from words I posted. All we have > > > to do is to shut up, sit down and stop thinking. > > > > > > My Teacher is enlightened to the same universal truth, which > > > Shakyamuni is enlightened to, which he also teaches all of us to > > > be enlightened to. In China, we call that Chan. Chan has been in > > > China far longer than Shakymuni. It was so without organization or > > > structure. > > > > > > In other words, all of us can be enlightened to the same universal > > > truth of Chan, with or without a journey through Buddhism. > > > > > > Bill's Zen is a very clear path to the same truth, as he has > > > continuously to state so. We all can, as long as we sit down, > > > shut up and stop thinking. > > > > > > :-) > > > > > > Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can > > > http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com/ > > > http://www.heartchan.org/ > > > > > > > > > On 1/23/2011 3:41 PM, Anthony Wu wrote: > > >> JM, > > >> Is your teacher higher than Sakyamuni? At least one 'person' > > >> claims so. Mr Li Hongzhi, leader of Falun Gong, is now in the > > >> USA. He may knock on your door any moment, and teach you > > >> something better than Chan/ > > >> Anthony > > >> > > >> --- On *Sun, 23/1/11, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺å¦â¢Ã§Â²Â¾Ã¦ËŽ > > >> /chan.jmjm@ > > >> <http://us.mc1217.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=chan.jmjm@/* > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >> From: Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺å¦â¢Ã§Â²Â¾Ã¦ËŽ chan.jmjm@ > > >> <http://us.mc1217.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=chan.jmjm@ > > >> Subject: [Zen] Is Chan Buddhist? > > >> To: [email protected] > > >> <http://us.mc1217.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected], > > >> [email protected] > > >> <http://us.mc1217.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected], > > >> [email protected] > > >> <http://us.mc1217.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] > > >> Date: Sunday, 23 January, 2011, 9:03 AM > > >> > > >> Good Day To All, > > >> > > >> My Teacher would say, "the Order of Chan is Buddhist, but the > > >> witness of > > >> Chan is not." > > >> > > >> Chan is just a nickname for the entire universe, including > > >> the visible > > >> and the invisible, the energy and its form, the perpetual and > > >> the > > >> transient, the big and the small, as well as all of its > > >> nature. It is > > >> always in a state of dynamic balance, always evolving, as > > >> well as > > >> integrating. > > >> > > >> Shakyamuni, Confucious, Lao Tze and many other sages all > > >> witnessed the > > >> truth of the universe, or Chan, and began their teaching. > > >> > > >> All schools of teaching are about the same truth, because all > > >> are part > > >> of universe and contains the same nature of the universe. > > >> This is also > > >> the nature of man and of all beings big and small. > > >> > > >> Awaken to the universal truth is just the beginning. My > > >> Teacher often > > >> remind us, "True practice begins after awakening." > > >> > > >> We practice to be totally, completely, wholesomely, > > >> physically, mentally > > >> and spiritually one with the entire universe, without exception, > > >> preference or selection. Such that we could live in sync with > > >> our > > >> original abilities to harmonize, to balance, to evolve and to > > >> integrate. > > >> > > >> This is what I was taught and have witnessed. > > >> > > >> Thank you for your time. > > >> JMJM > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can > > >> http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com/ > > >> http://www.heartchan.org/ > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! 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