Bill, I strongly protest that you only gave me two interjection marks, while Steve go five. How unfair you are!!!!!!!! Anthony
--- On Thu, 17/2/11, Bill! <[email protected]> wrote: From: Bill! <[email protected]> Subject: [Zen] Re: Experience Merit To: [email protected] Date: Thursday, 17 February, 2011, 10:38 AM Anthony!! --- In [email protected], Anthony Wu <wuasg@...> wrote: > > Steve, >  > You say, "Nagarjuna > said, those who try to turn Emptiness into a fixed explanation of > reality are incurable." >  > So we should not discount everything as illusion. >  > You also say, " Gotama wasn't > trying to explain reality to us. He was just giving us a skillful > medical prescription to cure us of our Dukkha." >  > When you have acute pain, e.g. from cancer, you would have big trouble > convincing yourself that it is just illusion. >  > Gotama also says the world is like a man hit by a poisonous arrow. The first > thing to do is to pull it out and cure the disease. Then, I think, we should > think about why he was hit by an arrow. It includes the question of karma. >  > Anthony > > --- On Thu, 17/2/11, SteveW <eugnostos2000@...> wrote: > > > From: SteveW <eugnostos2000@...> > Subject: [Zen] Re: Experience Merit > To: [email protected] > Date: Thursday, 17 February, 2011, 2:01 AM > > >  > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Anthony Wu <wuasg@> wrote: > > > > Steve, > >  > > Neither I nor my demon are responsible for your karmic misfortunes. No > > bribes can alleviate your problems. BTW, do you believe in karma? If not, > > what rules this universe? > >  > > Anthony > > > > Hi Anthony. If everything is "One Bright Jewel" as Dogen put it, > then all this talk of "my" karma and "your" karma is meaningless. > For that matter, if the arrow of time is an illusion and everything > is Here and Now, then karmic cause-and-effect is also an illusion. > You think that the past causes the future, but there is no reason > not to say that the future causes the past! (There have been physics > experiments demonstrating this aspect of quantum weirdness.) When > Nagarjuna wrote his famous Negations, he wasn't, imo, trying to > give us an ontological explanation of reality, but nobody can > that. So everybody tries to turn Emptiness into a fixed view-point. > As I have said before, the basic Buddhist teachings on karma, the > 12-fold chain of Dependant Origination and the teachings on > impermanence and no-self are useful expedients for practice, but > cannot be taken for a final and absolute explanation. I refer you > to The Mahaparanirvana Sutra and the Dzogchen literature on this. > The fact is that it will always be a Mystery from our finite, > relative, rational view-points, because we cannot step outside > of What Is in order to look at What Is. But we can rest in that > Such-As-It-Is peacefully. So I really can't answer your question, > Anthony, and I suspect that neither can anyone else. Gotama wasn't > trying to explain reality to us. He was just giving us a skillful > medical prescription to cure us of our Dukkha. But, as Nagarjuna > said, those who try to turn Emptiness into a fixed explanation of > reality are incurable. IMO. > Steve > > >
