Edgar: Responding with another question is a way of running away of a question or evading a question addressed. I know that your posting was objective but you have to admit if not in public at least to yourself that posting was incomplete as there was not mention of the other side impact of victims of rape. And as for your question about me having a brother who will be a rapist...I sincerely wouldn't know how I would react in front of that. I don't entirely know myself but the little I may know myself I do know that It will upset me very badly to have a rapist brother. And as for the action to take against my own brother...It's hard to say just here under theory what I would do or not. You'll be in agreement that there is not way to know that if one doesn't have a brother in the first place. But just in case, out of imaging that I had one, then there is guarantee that that would have an strong impact on me in the form of shock and deep psychological pain. I'm not confident enough to know what else will be reacting after having found out that I have a rapist brother. Mayka
--- On Thu, 24/2/11, Edgar Owen <[email protected]> wrote: From: Edgar Owen <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Can A Buddha Harm Others? To: [email protected] Date: Thursday, 24 February, 2011, 0:05 Hi Mayka, Well, how about if the rapist was your brother or husband? I'm discussing the issue objectively not personally. One doesn't have to always inject a personal dimension to everything. Doing so can become an attachment which Zen tells us to avoid as an impediment to realization. Billions of horrible things happen to people and animals every day. That is the way the world works. The Zen person acts compassionately in his own life but analyzes events objectively rather than personalizing events that happen elsewhere. That's what I'm trying to do. Edgar On Feb 23, 2011, at 5:02 PM, Maria Lopez wrote: Edgar: All this sounds thoughtful while reading but incomplete as there is no mention or comment about both physical and mental wounds inflicted over the women the rapist left behind. There is no mention either of any of the consequences over the life of that particular woman who was raped and the impact of being raped may have. And of course there is nothing about a dear female member closed to you being raped and how you would react. How about if the raped one was your little sister? Mayka --- On Wed, 23/2/11, Edgar Owen <[email protected]> wrote: From: Edgar Owen <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Can A Buddha Harm Others? To: [email protected] Date: Wednesday, 23 February, 2011, 20:56 Kristy, Good objective comments. Rape fantasies are indeed common among women, though of course these are invariably about really appealing lusty guys who won't take no for an answer rather than men that the woman isn't attracted to as may well be the case in actual rapes. The cure for rape is of course for the potential rapist to have a woman who satisfies all his desires voluntarily. If this is the case he has no need to go elsewhere on any terms. Unfortunately few women know how to provide this to a man. It's not just about providing ordinary sex, but fulfilling his deepest psychological needs as a man as well. Throughout history rape has been quite common and everyone of us is almost certainly the descendant of one or more rapes in their ancestry. From an evolutionary perspective rape is quite natural and is an excellent strategy to maximize one's genetic legacy - if one can get away with it. As ED's article points out this is usually only the case in when the woman in question is not under the protection of male family members as is usually the case in traditional societies. In modern western societies the state has usurped male protection of women which makes them more vulnerable to rape. Men were given a very strong natural desire to have sex with attractive women at almost any cost if they can manage it. The genes that give that impetus have been strengthened because such men tend to leave more descendants carrying those genes. Every man has at least some desire to rape women he can't get otherwise though that desire is usually tempered by an equally strong survival instinct. Men of course have strong rape fantasies as well. These often take the form of the woman he rapes realizing how wonderful he is and falling head over heels in love with him because he is such a great lover whether he actually is or not! Edgar On Feb 23, 2011, at 1:22 PM, Kristy McClain wrote: Edgar is indeed correct. It can be "comforting" to believe that the incentive is power--hatred of women and the like. But the evidence, and the report from rapists themselves, is that it is indeed about sex. Though other factors co-exist. 10 years ago, i was moderating a rape-fantasy discussion board, as part of a training exercise. A clinical psychologist in NY was running a group for male sex offenders who were in prison. We had many discussions on this, and the consenses was in agreement with this article. The psychologist running the group was--himself drawn to the act of rape as a sexual drive. He told me that the best gift his wife gave him was the acceptance she offered him when he confessed this to her. She even offered to role-play a rape scene with him, but he refused. He told me that he felt it might get out of hand. Its easy to label these men as monsters as a means to deny their right to even exist. Brand them. Shun them. But they do exist, and have since the dawn of man. If we are all "one", we can only hope to heal if everyone is included in the process. I may hate child abusers.. but I remember that more often than not, they were abused too. btw.. There are many, many females who have rape fantasies, as part of their erotic responses. Remember.. I recognize this is a polarizing topic. I'm not denying the experience rape has on unwilling females. I'm just offering another perspective because the only way to ever hope to prevent or heal the problem, is to look at it with a clear mirror. Edgar, What does the data show on rape when it is done in countries as part of geneocide? Kristy --- On Wed, 2/23/11, Edgar Owen <[email protected]> wrote: From: Edgar Owen <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Can A Buddha Harm Others? To: [email protected] Date: Wednesday, February 23, 2011, 8:08 AM Rape is primarily about satisfying sexual desire when it can't be achieved otherwise. Complete power over a woman can be a very strong aphrodisiac. Especially where violence or injury is involved it can also be combined with the man's desire for revenge against women for perceived psychological injury previously suffered at the hands of a woman or women in general by the rapist. Edgar On Feb 23, 2011, at 9:45 AM, ED wrote: Hi Audrey - Yours is an assertion that conforms to the usual feminist position. It may be true or it may not. Has the truth of the assertion been confirmed by say neurophysiologists and neuropsychologists? Thanks, ED --- In [email protected], "audreydc1983" <audreydc1983@...> wrote: > > I will beg to differ on one point: Rape has little to do with sexual desire. > It is about power, control, and victimization. > Those of us who believe sex is a natural product of lust, sexual desire, and > love often will assume that rape, since it is a sexual act, is associated in > some way with these feelings. > This assumption couldn't be further from the truth. If there is any desire in > rape, it is the desire to control/victimize. > > ~Audrey
