Chris, I haven't followed the postings recently, but as I was looking over the thread topics, I saw your comment here, and have a quick question..
Being in No. Cal, have you attended any classes /retreats or such with Cheryl Hubert? I think her center is near Murphys-- ( Mountain View Zen Center), but she has been at Spirit Rock and other centers in the Santa Cruz area. As I honor much of your practice style, I'm curious--in light of your statements here-- how you would respond to her belief that your life is what you give your attention to, and how to work constructively and compassionately with what Cheri calls "the negative voices in the head". I-- of course, do believe in actively engaging in compassionate service and actions. For me, zen is a means--not an end. But I will be teaching with her & others next fall, on how mindful practices influence depression and suicide. Just interested in your thoughts. Thanks...k --- In [email protected], Chris Austin-Lane <chris@...> wrote: > > On Tuesday, March 8, 2011, mike brown <uerusuboyo@...> wrote: > > > Chris, > > > > My apologys if I've got my wires crossed. I thought your original post was > > referring to compassion when you said that, "sit, allow your body/mind to > > stop twisting itself up, see that we are all one, all changing, and > > fundamentally ok, and allow that belief to soak into you body so that your > > body/mind components are confident and able to see when action is > > appropriate", then perhaps that is more acceptable. > > That paragraph was in contrast to the one above it, a straw man > statement "just get enlightened and all the worlds problems > disappear." > > That paragraphis my attempt at the marketing of no-marketing. > > > > And also: > > > >>Many Zen groups do sponsor outward facing activity; many more individuals > >>who undertake training also perform actions of benefit to others; >however > >>the zen model is to make no more fuss about that than a hand adjusting the > >>pillow for the head; of course that's what the hand does, no big >deal. > > > > I took the above as talking about compassionate 'action' and my point was > > referring to how that action was performed - by thought or 'thoughtless' > > intuition. The point about Red Cross parcels being sent to orphans wasn't > > really being addressed to what you said, but rather that compassion arises > > in every action of the awakened rather than just the obvious ones (which > > anyone can do - even cynically). > > Yes, that paragraph was responding to ED's saying that his local zen > center visits the imprisoned. > > As for how the action is performed, action is action, how can it be > performed by thought? > > I rather find this dogged desire to split things into thought filled > vs intuitive to be tedious. People do what they can. Certainly > blindness to my own beliefs and my own nature makes it easier to piss > off my neighbors when I thought i was being helpful, but to postpone > responding to the people around you until you climb some mountain of > enlightenment seems like another form of placing an idea above your > actual life. Acting as we can as we are, with that little openness to > the chance that we may be missing something quite important, is > something we can do right now. > > Note: by my own nature, I do not mean no-self, I mean the stuff that > all my friends and acquaintances well know about me which I do not > like to see at all. > > Cheers, > > --Chris > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Chris Austin-Lane <chris@...> > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Tue, 8 March, 2011 23:17:13 > > Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Two Potent Quotes > > > > > > > > > > It is just clear. My original post wasn't about sending food to the hungry > > orphans, I am not sure where you got that; or compassion either. > > --Chris > > > > On Mar 8, 2011 3:38 AM, "mike brown" <uerusuboyo@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Chris, > > > > > >>At the time, in the moment, it is clear. > > > > Do you mean it is consciously clear (as in an active judgement) > > or intuitively clear, without thought? For me, I still see compassion > > arising from any > > action performed in the awakened 'state'- sending Red Cross parcels to > > children in Eithiopia is beside the point. > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > From: Chris Austin-Lane <chris@...> > > > > To: Zen_Forum@...: Tue, 8 March, 2011 13:54:13 > > Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Two Potent Quotes > > > > > > > > > > At the time, in the moment, it is clear. I did not mean something which > > would be labelled approp... > > > > > > > > > > Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are > > reading! Talk about it tod... > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! 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