Mike, I was responding to Edgar's comments about the "bitch fight" thing. He made a comment that this was a spiritual one upmanship, i think was the term.
For a moment, let's make sure we're on the same page with the whole Absolute/ Relative truth thing. As I usually explain it, The Absolute is: all things, one thing. therefore no "thing" at all, aka dependent origination, Mu.The relative is that you exist, the chair exist, I exist; it's a real world. To me, the Hotei story is not about answering in the Relative or Absolute. It is an expression of real practice beyond intellect. Sure, many koans/stories can have multiple interpretations, this was mine. Others may see more or less in the story. Guy --- In [email protected], mike brown <uerusuboyo@...> wrote: > > Guy, > > You wanted to see other people's reactions to the story and that's what you > got. > I don't really understand where you saw a spiritual "bitch fight" or that > anyone > who responded was trying to be "spiritually superior". You finished your post > with: > > >Had he spoken a single word he would have failed the questions, his action > >in > >the moment spoke louder. > > Now this can be true, but it can also be contradicted as seen in the koan I > responded with (i.e giving a spoken answer). If you want a relative truth you > can't make such an absolute observation. > > Mike > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Guy <anatmansurf@...> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Tue, 22 March, 2011 20:32:33 > Subject: Re: [Zen] A true Buddha > >  > Wow, lots of different points of view expressed here. Maybe i should just > further explain. > > Hotei answered the master with real action in the moment, not an > intellectualization of it. Real action in the here and now is > Buddhism/Reality. > Hotei could have done any number of things, as long as they were real action > in > the moment. > > I'm not looking for a spiritual "bitch fight" here. Trying to prove > intellectual > or Zen superiority is pointless and a waste of time. I simply wanted to see > others reaction to what i consider a great story that encapsulates what Zen > really is at a human level(the reletive truth as opposed to the Absolute > truth). > > Be well, Guy > > --- In [email protected], mike brown <uerusuboyo@> wrote: > > > > Guy, > > > > > >>>Had he spoken a single word he would have failed the questions, his > > >>>action > >in > > > > >>>the moment spoke louder. > > > > > >I was simply going to ask you, "Who says?", but Edgar and ED already did > > >that > >in > > > > >in a round-about way. Instead, let me leave you this koan to save you > > >getting > > > >your finger cut off at some later date ; ) > > > > > >Fa-yen asked the monk Hsüan-tzu why he had never asked him any questions > > >aboutZen. The monk explained that he had already attained his > > >understanding > >from > > > > >another master. Pressed by Fa-yen for an explanation, the monk said that > > >when > >he > > > > >had asked his teacher, âWhat is the Buddha?â he had received the > > >answer, > > >âPing-ting Tâung-tzu comes for fire!â > > >âA good answer!â said Fa-yen. âBut Iâm sure you donât understand > > >it.â > > >âPing-ting,â explained the monk, âis the god of fire. For him to be > > >seeking > >fire > > > > >is like myself, seeking the Buddha. Iâm the Buddha already, and no > > >asking is > > >needed.â > > >âJust as I thought!â laughed Fa-yen. âYou didnât get it.â > > >The monk was so offended that he left the monastery, but later repented of > > >himself and returned, humbly requesting instruction. > > >âYou ask me,â said Fa-yen. > > >âWhat is the Buddha?â inquired the monk. > > >âPing-ting Tâung-tzu comes for fire!â > > Mike > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
