Mayka, Where will I find it?
Mike ________________________________ From: Maria Lopez <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Mon, 28 March, 2011 20:52:28 Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Clues to the meaning of Zen Mike: As previous post sent would do. And I'm not trying to be funny. Skip the dropping and you'll find it. Mayka --- On Mon, 28/3/11, mike brown <[email protected]> wrote: >From: mike brown <[email protected]> >Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Clues to the meaning of Zen >To: [email protected] >Date: Monday, 28 March, 2011, 12:24 > > > >Mayka, > >>When zen is dropped... > >Dropped from where? > >Mike > > > > ________________________________ From: Maria Lopez <[email protected]> >To: [email protected] >Sent: Mon, 28 March, 2011 19:40:43 >Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Clues to the meaning of Zen > > >Mike; > >When zen is dropped there is nothing left to hold onto. At those moments time >and space disappears even when they still they are there. I have had an >occasional glimpse experience into this and all what remains is the oneness >of present moment. The self is dissolved in the flow of the present moment >becoming the present moment itself. > >Mayka > > >--- On Mon, 28/3/11, mike brown <[email protected]> wrote: > > >>From: mike brown <[email protected]> >>Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Clues to the meaning of Zen >>To: [email protected] >>Date: Monday, 28 March, 2011, 8:35 >> >> >> >>Mayka, >> >>If "zen" can be dropped - where are you holding it? >> >>Mike >> >> >> >> ________________________________ From: Maria Lopez <[email protected]> >>To: [email protected] >>Sent: Mon, 28 March, 2011 12:14:23 >>Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Clues to the meaning of Zen >> >> >>Bill and Mike: >> >>Well what happens is that first is zen buddhism to start with, and alone the >>practice buddhism is dropped and later on zen is also dropped. Just my >>version. >> >> >>Mayka >> >>--- On Mon, 28/3/11, Bill! <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >>>From: Bill! <[email protected]> >>>Subject: [Zen] Re: Clues to the meaning of Zen >>>To: [email protected] >>>Date: Monday, 28 March, 2011, 3:44 >>> >>> >>> >>>Mike, >>> >>>I agree with you, but I don't think the overwhelming majority of Zen >>>Buddhists >>>would...Bill! >>> >>>--- In [email protected], mike brown <uerusuboyo@...> wrote: >>>> >>>> Bill!, >>>> >>>> I think there is a good argument on both sides as to whether Zen Buddhism >>>> is a >>> >>>> religion or not, but I think where Zen Buddhism differs from most >>>> religions is >>> >>>> its exhortation that Buddhism itself must be dropped (carrying the raft >>>>analogy) >>>> >>>> before its ultimate conclusion can be realised. >>>> >>>> Mike >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ________________________________ >>>> From: Bill! <BillSmart@...> >>>> To: [email protected] >>>> Sent: Mon, 28 March, 2011 11:22:08 >>>> Subject: [Zen] Re: Clues to the meaning of Zen >>>> >>>>  >>>> Mayka, >>>> >>>> There is no religious connotations to TNH's "WAKE UP". Sounds like good >>>> pure >>>>zen >>>> >>>> advice to me. >>>> >>>> The real question should be 'where is the Buddhism in "WAKE UP?"'. There >>>> is >>>> none, and that's why there is no religious connections. It's the Buddhism >>>> cloak >>>> >>>> wrapped around Zen Buddhism that makes it a relgion - in my opinion. >>>> >>>> ...Bill! >>>> >>>> --- In [email protected], Maria Lopez <flordeloto@> wrote: >>>> > >>>> > Another koan by TNH: >>>> >  >>>> > "WAKE UP" >>>> >  >>>> > Couldn't be more than zen than that. Where is the religion on it? >>>> >  >>>> > Mayka. >>>> > >>>> > --- On Sat, 26/3/11, Maria Lopez <flordeloto@> wrote: >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > From: Maria Lopez <flordeloto@> >>>> > Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Clues to the meaning of Zen >>>> > To: [email protected] >>>> > Date: Saturday, 26 March, 2011, 10:56 >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >  >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Bill: >>>> >  >>>> > Zen Buddhism is not a religion but a way of living. A different >>>> > matter is >>>>if >>>> >>>> >people make from that a religion. And the same rule will be applied >>>> >to >>>>those >>>> >>>> >who make from zen a religion. No difference.   >>>> >  >>>> > My experience here is that if one will follow the instructions given can >>>> >inmediately have an experience of the present moment. The present >>>> >moment >>>>is a >>>> >>>> >most important key and cores of zen. >>>> > >>>> >  >>>> > According to my personal experience in the TNH tradition which is Zen >>>>Buddhism >>>> >>>> >this is the much easier and short cut to get into the wave of zen. As >>>> >zen >>>>is >>>> >>>> >presented in action over the 24 hours a day and not just by sitting down >>>> >in >>>>the >>>> >>>> >cushion. To me is a much easier way to disclose the insight of the >>>> >sort of >>>> >>>> >koans given in the TNH tradition such as "Present moment, wonderful >>>>moment" or >>>> >>>> >"mindfulness" or "breathe you are alive" rather than the >>>> >complicated >> >>>> >nonsense given by other zen traditions given one just a headache. >>>> >The >>>>ones >>>> >>>> >given by TNH awakes something in one. >>>> >  >>>> > All zen traditions including the Soto have the guides and teachings of >>>> > the > >>>> >Buddha and sutras as a way to introduction and guidelines. Though >>>> >it's >>>>true >>>> >>>> >that through practice and in time all that start to be discarded by >>>>itself. >>>> >>>> > >>>> >  >>>> > Mayka >>>> >  >>>> >  >>>> >  >>>> > --- On Sat, 26/3/11, Bill! <BillSmart@> wrote: >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > From: Bill! <BillSmart@> >>>> > Subject: [Zen] Re: Clues to the meaning of Zen >>>> > To: [email protected] >>>> > Date: Saturday, 26 March, 2011, 1:10 >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >  >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > My comments are embedded in your list below. If I don't comment on >>>> > something it means I agree: >>>> > >>>> > --- In [email protected], "ED" <seacrofter001@> wrote: >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > Clues to the meaning of Zen >>>> > > Because Zen is so hard to explain here are some quotations that may >>>> > help >>>> > > you get an idea of it: >>>> > > >>>> > > * The essence of Zen Buddhism is achieving enlightenment by seeing >>>> > > one's original mind (or original nature) directly; without the >>>> > > intervention of the intellect. >>>> > > * Zen is big on intuitive understanding, on just 'getting it', and >>>> > > not so hot on philosophising. >>>> > > * Zen is concerned with what actually is rather than what we think or >>>> > > feel about what is. >>>> > > * Zen is concerned with things as they are, without trying to >>>> > > interpret them. >>>> > > * Zen points to something before thinking, before all your ideas. >>>> > > * The key to Buddhahood in Zen is simply self-knowledge. >>>> > >>>> > [Bill!] I don't think 'knowledge' is a good choice of words. I'd >>>> > substitute 'awareness'. >>>> > >>>> > > * To be a human being is to be a Buddha. Buddha nature is just >>>> > > another name for human nature - true human nature. >>>> > >>>> > [Bill!] Buddha Nature applies to all sentient beings, not just humans. >>>> > >>>> > > * Zen is simply to be completely alive. >>>> > > * Zen is short for Zen Buddhism. It is sometimes called a religion >>>> > > and sometimes called a philosophy. Choose whichever term you prefer; >>>> > it >>>> > > simply doesn't matter. >>>> > >>>> > [Bill!] I definitely classify Zen Buddhism as a religion. All >>>> > religions do have some philosophy in them. Just plain 'zen' however is >>>> > not a religion or a philosphy. (See below) >>>> > >>>> > > * Zen is not a philosophy or a religion. >>>> > > * Zen tries to free the mind from the slavery of words and the >>>> > > constriction of logic. >>>> > >>>> > [Bill!] Zen doesn't 'try' to do anything. >>>> > >>>> > > * Zen in its essence is the art of seeing into the nature of one's >>>> > > own being, and it points the way from bondage to freedom. >>>> > >>>> > [Bill!] I don't like the references to 'bondage' and 'freedom'. Zen is >>>> > not a silver bullet-train to happiness. It is acceptance of life as-is. >>>> > > * Zen is meditation. >>>> > >>>> >>> >>> >> >
