Mayka, Is zen still 'dropped' when I'm not mindful enough to be aware of "JUST THIS!"?
Mike ________________________________ From: Maria Lopez <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Mon, 28 March, 2011 21:04:27 Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Clues to the meaning of Zen Mike: Actually; "JUST THIS!" (It might be a much better illustration of what I meant). Mayka --- On Mon, 28/3/11, Maria Lopez <[email protected]> wrote: >From: Maria Lopez <[email protected]> >Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Clues to the meaning of Zen >To: [email protected] >Date: Monday, 28 March, 2011, 12:52 > > > >Mike: > As previous post sent would do. And I'm not trying to be funny. Skip the >dropping and you'll find it. > >Mayka > >--- On Mon, 28/3/11, mike brown <[email protected]> wrote: > > >>From: mike brown <[email protected]> >>Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Clues to the meaning of Zen >>To: [email protected] >>Date: Monday, 28 March, 2011, 12:24 >> >> >> >>Mayka, >> >>>When zen is dropped... >> >>Dropped from where? >> >>Mike >> >> >> >> ________________________________ From: Maria Lopez <[email protected]> >>To: [email protected] >>Sent: Mon, 28 March, 2011 19:40:43 >>Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Clues to the meaning of Zen >> >> >>Mike; >> >>When zen is dropped there is nothing left to hold onto. At those moments >>time >>and space disappears even when they still they are there. I have had an >>occasional glimpse experience into this and all what remains is the oneness >>of present moment. The self is dissolved in the flow of the present moment >>becoming the present moment itself. >> >>Mayka >> >> >>--- On Mon, 28/3/11, mike brown <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >>>From: mike brown <[email protected]> >>>Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Clues to the meaning of Zen >>>To: [email protected] >>>Date: Monday, 28 March, 2011, 8:35 >>> >>> >>> >>>Mayka, >>> >>>If "zen" can be dropped - where are you holding it? >>> >>>Mike >>> >>> >>> >>> ________________________________ From: Maria Lopez <[email protected]> >>>To: [email protected] >>>Sent: Mon, 28 March, 2011 12:14:23 >>>Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Clues to the meaning of Zen >>> >>> >>>Bill and Mike: >>> >>>Well what happens is that first is zen buddhism to start with, and alone >>>the >>>practice buddhism is dropped and later on zen is also dropped. Just my >>>version. >>> >>> >>>Mayka >>> >>>--- On Mon, 28/3/11, Bill! <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> >>>>From: Bill! <[email protected]> >>>>Subject: [Zen] Re: Clues to the meaning of Zen >>>>To: [email protected] >>>>Date: Monday, 28 March, 2011, 3:44 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Mike, >>>> >>>>I agree with you, but I don't think the overwhelming majority of Zen >>>>Buddhists >>>>would...Bill! >>>> >>>>--- In [email protected], mike brown <uerusuboyo@...> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Bill!, >>>>> >>>>> I think there is a good argument on both sides as to whether Zen Buddhism >>>>> is a >>>> >>>>> religion or not, but I think where Zen Buddhism differs from most >>>>> religions is >>>> >>>>> its exhortation that Buddhism itself must be dropped (carrying the raft >>>>>analogy) >>>>> >>>>> before its ultimate conclusion can be realised. >>>>> >>>>> Mike >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ________________________________ >>>>> From: Bill! <BillSmart@...> >>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>> Sent: Mon, 28 March, 2011 11:22:08 >>>>> Subject: [Zen] Re: Clues to the meaning of Zen >>>>> >>>>>  >>>>> Mayka, >>>>> >>>>> There is no religious connotations to TNH's "WAKE UP". Sounds like good >>>>> pure >>>>>zen >>>>> >>>>> advice to me. >>>>> >>>>> The real question should be 'where is the Buddhism in "WAKE UP?"'. There >>>>> is > >>>>> none, and that's why there is no religious connections. It's the Buddhism >>>>> cloak >>>>> >>>>> wrapped around Zen Buddhism that makes it a relgion - in my opinion. >>>>> >>>>> ...Bill! >>>>> >>>>> --- In [email protected], Maria Lopez <flordeloto@> wrote: >>>>> > >>>>> > Another koan by TNH: >>>>> >  >>>>> > "WAKE UP" >>>>> >  >>>>> > Couldn't be more than zen than that. Where is the religion on it? >>>>> >  >>>>> > Mayka. >>>>> > >>>>> > --- On Sat, 26/3/11, Maria Lopez <flordeloto@> wrote: >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > From: Maria Lopez <flordeloto@> >>>>> > Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Clues to the meaning of Zen >>>>> > To: [email protected] >>>>> > Date: Saturday, 26 March, 2011, 10:56 >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> >  >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > Bill: >>>>> >  >>>>> > Zen Buddhism is not a religion but a way of living. A different >>>>> > matter is >>>>>if >>>>> >>>>> >people make from that a religion. And the same rule will be applied >>>>> >to >>>>>those >>>>> >>>>> >who make from zen a religion. No difference.   >>>>> >  >>>>> > My experience here is that if one will follow the instructions given >>>>> > can >>>>> >inmediately have an experience of the present moment. The present >>>>> >moment >>>>>is a >>>>> >>>>> >most important key and cores of zen. >>>>> > >>>>> >  >>>>> > According to my personal experience in the TNH tradition which is Zen >>>>>Buddhism >>>>> >>>>> >this is the much easier and short cut to get into the wave of zen. >>>>> >As zen >>>>>is >>>>> >>>>> >presented in action over the 24 hours a day and not just by sitting down >>>>> >in >>>>>the >>>>> >>>>> >cushion. To me is a much easier way to disclose the insight of the >>>>> >sort of >>>>> >>>>> >koans given in the TNH tradition such as "Present moment, wonderful >>>>>moment" or >>>>> >>>>> >"mindfulness" or "breathe you are alive" rather than the >>>>> >complicated >>> >>>>> >nonsense given by other zen traditions given one just a headache. >>>>> >The >>>>>ones >>>>> >>>>> >given by TNH awakes something in one. >>>>> >  >>>>> > All zen traditions including the Soto have the guides and teachings of >>>>> > the >> >>>>> >Buddha and sutras as a way to introduction and guidelines. Though >>>>> >it's >>>>>true >>>>> >>>>> >that through practice and in time all that start to be discarded by >>>>>itself. >>>>> >>>>> > >>>>> >  >>>>> > Mayka >>>>> >  >>>>> >  >>>>> >  >>>>> > --- On Sat, 26/3/11, Bill! <BillSmart@> wrote: >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > From: Bill! <BillSmart@> >>>>> > Subject: [Zen] Re: Clues to the meaning of Zen >>>>> > To: [email protected] >>>>> > Date: Saturday, 26 March, 2011, 1:10 >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> >  >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > My comments are embedded in your list below. If I don't comment on >>>>> > something it means I agree: >>>>> > >>>>> > --- In [email protected], "ED" <seacrofter001@> wrote: >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > Clues to the meaning of Zen >>>>> > > Because Zen is so hard to explain here are some quotations that may >>>>> > help >>>>> > > you get an idea of it: >>>>> > > >>>>> > > * The essence of Zen Buddhism is achieving enlightenment by seeing >>>>> > > one's original mind (or original nature) directly; without the >>>>> > > intervention of the intellect. >>>>> > > * Zen is big on intuitive understanding, on just 'getting it', and >>>>> > > not so hot on philosophising. >>>>> > > * Zen is concerned with what actually is rather than what we think or >>>>> > > feel about what is. >>>>> > > * Zen is concerned with things as they are, without trying to >>>>> > > interpret them. >>>>> > > * Zen points to something before thinking, before all your ideas. >>>>> > > * The key to Buddhahood in Zen is simply self-knowledge. >>>>> > >>>>> > [Bill!] I don't think 'knowledge' is a good choice of words. I'd >>>>> > substitute 'awareness'. >>>>> > >>>>> > > * To be a human being is to be a Buddha. Buddha nature is just >>>>> > > another name for human nature - true human nature. >>>>> > >>>>> > [Bill!] Buddha Nature applies to all sentient beings, not just humans. >>>>> > >>>>> > > * Zen is simply to be completely alive. >>>>> > > * Zen is short for Zen Buddhism. It is sometimes called a religion >>>>> > > and sometimes called a philosophy. Choose whichever term you prefer; >>>>> > it >>>>> > > simply doesn't matter. >>>>> > >>>>> > [Bill!] I definitely classify Zen Buddhism as a religion. All >>>>> > religions do have some philosophy in them. Just plain 'zen' however is >>>>> > not a religion or a philosphy. (See below) >>>>> > >>>>> > > * Zen is not a philosophy or a religion. >>>>> > > * Zen tries to free the mind from the slavery of words and the >>>>> > > constriction of logic. >>>>> > >>>>> > [Bill!] Zen doesn't 'try' to do anything. >>>>> > >>>>> > > * Zen in its essence is the art of seeing into the nature of one's >>>>> > > own being, and it points the way from bondage to freedom. >>>>> > >>>>> > [Bill!] I don't like the references to 'bondage' and 'freedom'. Zen is >>>>> > not a silver bullet-train to happiness. It is acceptance of life as-is. >>>>> > > * Zen is meditation. >>>>> > >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>
