Mayka, >If you drop zen you drop everything else with it.
Ok, ding-ding! Round 2! When are we ever *not* in 'zen is dropped'? Mike ________________________________ From: Maria Lopez <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Mon, 28 March, 2011 22:40:54 Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Clues to the meaning of Zen Mike; If you drop zen you drop everything else with it. Then "Just This" is a practice without practice. "Just This" and yourself are not separated. You are "Just this!", "you are mindfulness". (Remember that this are only in and off glimpses of experience reality and that Mayka have to practice in regular basis as everybody else. This glimpses are continuous traffic light changing colours) Mayka --- On Mon, 28/3/11, mike brown <[email protected]> wrote: >From: mike brown <[email protected]> >Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Clues to the meaning of Zen >To: [email protected] >Date: Monday, 28 March, 2011, 13:33 > > > >Mayka, > >Is zen still 'dropped' when I'm not mindful enough to be aware of "JUST THIS!"? > >Mike > > > > ________________________________ From: Maria Lopez <[email protected]> >To: [email protected] >Sent: Mon, 28 March, 2011 21:04:27 >Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Clues to the meaning of Zen > > >Mike: > >Actually; "JUST THIS!" (It might be a much better illustration of what I >meant). > >Mayka > > >--- On Mon, 28/3/11, Maria Lopez <[email protected]> wrote: > > >>From: Maria Lopez <[email protected]> >>Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Clues to the meaning of Zen >>To: [email protected] >>Date: Monday, 28 March, 2011, 12:52 >> >> >> >>Mike: >> As previous post sent would do. And I'm not trying to be funny. Skip the >>dropping and you'll find it. >> >>Mayka >> >>--- On Mon, 28/3/11, mike brown <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >>>From: mike brown <[email protected]> >>>Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Clues to the meaning of Zen >>>To: [email protected] >>>Date: Monday, 28 March, 2011, 12:24 >>> >>> >>> >>>Mayka, >>> >>>>When zen is dropped... >>> >>>Dropped from where? >>> >>>Mike >>> >>> >>> >>> ________________________________ From: Maria Lopez <[email protected]> >>>To: [email protected] >>>Sent: Mon, 28 March, 2011 19:40:43 >>>Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Clues to the meaning of Zen >>> >>> >>>Mike; >>> >>>When zen is dropped there is nothing left to hold onto. At those moments >>>time >>>and space disappears even when they still they are there. I have had an >>>occasional glimpse experience into this and all what remains is the >>>oneness >>>of present moment. The self is dissolved in the flow of the present moment >>>becoming the present moment itself. >>> >>>Mayka >>> >>> >>>--- On Mon, 28/3/11, mike brown <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> >>>>From: mike brown <[email protected]> >>>>Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Clues to the meaning of Zen >>>>To: [email protected] >>>>Date: Monday, 28 March, 2011, 8:35 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Mayka, >>>> >>>>If "zen" can be dropped - where are you holding it? >>>> >>>>Mike >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ________________________________ From: Maria Lopez <[email protected]> >>>>To: [email protected] >>>>Sent: Mon, 28 March, 2011 12:14:23 >>>>Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Clues to the meaning of Zen >>>> >>>> >>>>Bill and Mike: >>>> >>>>Well what happens is that first is zen buddhism to start with, and alone >>>>the >>>>practice buddhism is dropped and later on zen is also dropped. Just my >>>>version. >>>> >>>> >>>>Mayka >>>> >>>>--- On Mon, 28/3/11, Bill! <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>From: Bill! <[email protected]> >>>>>Subject: [Zen] Re: Clues to the meaning of Zen >>>>>To: [email protected] >>>>>Date: Monday, 28 March, 2011, 3:44 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Mike, >>>>> >>>>>I agree with you, but I don't think the overwhelming majority of Zen >>>>>Buddhists >>>>>would...Bill! >>>>> >>>>>--- In [email protected], mike brown <uerusuboyo@...> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Bill!, >>>>>> >>>>>> I think there is a good argument on both sides as to whether Zen >>>>>> Buddhism is a >>>>> >>>>>> religion or not, but I think where Zen Buddhism differs from most >>>>>> religions is >>>>> >>>>>> its exhortation that Buddhism itself must be dropped (carrying the raft >>>>>>analogy) >>>>>> >>>>>> before its ultimate conclusion can be realised. >>>>>> >>>>>> Mike >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>> From: Bill! <BillSmart@...> >>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>> Sent: Mon, 28 March, 2011 11:22:08 >>>>>> Subject: [Zen] Re: Clues to the meaning of Zen >>>>>> >>>>>>  >>>>>> Mayka, >>>>>> >>>>>> There is no religious connotations to TNH's "WAKE UP". Sounds like good >>>>>> pure >>>>>>zen >>>>>> >>>>>> advice to me. >>>>>> >>>>>> The real question should be 'where is the Buddhism in "WAKE UP?"'. There >>>>>> is >> >>>>>> none, and that's why there is no religious connections. It's the >>>>>> Buddhism cloak >>>>>> >>>>>> wrapped around Zen Buddhism that makes it a relgion - in my opinion. >>>>>> >>>>>> ...Bill! >>>>>> >>>>>> --- In [email protected], Maria Lopez <flordeloto@> wrote: >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Another koan by TNH: >>>>>> >  >>>>>> > "WAKE UP" >>>>>> >  >>>>>> > Couldn't be more than zen than that. Where is the religion on it? >>>>>> >  >>>>>> > Mayka. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > --- On Sat, 26/3/11, Maria Lopez <flordeloto@> wrote: >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > From: Maria Lopez <flordeloto@> >>>>>> > Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Clues to the meaning of Zen >>>>>> > To: [email protected] >>>>>> > Date: Saturday, 26 March, 2011, 10:56 >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> >  >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Bill: >>>>>> >  >>>>>> > Zen Buddhism is not a religion but a way of living. A different >>>>>> > matter is >>>>>>if >>>>>> >>>>>> >people make from that a religion. And the same rule will be applied >>>>>> >to >>>>>>those >>>>>> >>>>>> >who make from zen a religion. No difference.   >>>>>> >  >>>>>> > My experience here is that if one will follow the instructions given >>>>>> > can > >>>>>> >inmediately have an experience of the present moment. The present >>>>>> >moment >>>>>>is a >>>>>> >>>>>> >most important key and cores of zen. >>>>>> > >>>>>> >  >>>>>> > According to my personal experience in the TNH tradition which is Zen >>>>>>Buddhism >>>>>> >>>>>> >this is the much easier and short cut to get into the wave of zen. >>>>>> >As zen >>>>>>is >>>>>> >>>>>> >presented in action over the 24 hours a day and not just by sitting >>>>>> >down in >>>>>>the >>>>>> >>>>>> >cushion. To me is a much easier way to disclose the insight of the >>>>>> >sort of >>>>>> >>>>>> >koans given in the TNH tradition such as "Present moment, wonderful >>>>>>moment" or >>>>>> >>>>>> >"mindfulness" or "breathe you are alive" rather than the >>>>>> >complicated >>>> >>>>>> >nonsense given by other zen traditions given one just a >>>>>> >headache. The >>>>>>ones >>>>>> >>>>>> >given by TNH awakes something in one. >>>>>> >  >>>>>> > All zen traditions including the Soto have the guides and teachings of >>>>>> > the >>> >>>>>> >Buddha and sutras as a way to introduction and guidelines. Though >>>>>> >it's >>>>>>true >>>>>> >>>>>> >that through practice and in time all that start to be discarded by >>>>>>itself. >>>>>> >>>>>> > >>>>>> >  >>>>>> > Mayka >>>>>> >  >>>>>> >  >>>>>> >  >>>>>> > --- On Sat, 26/3/11, Bill! <BillSmart@> wrote: >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > From: Bill! <BillSmart@> >>>>>> > Subject: [Zen] Re: Clues to the meaning of Zen >>>>>> > To: [email protected] >>>>>> > Date: Saturday, 26 March, 2011, 1:10 >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> >  >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > My comments are embedded in your list below. If I don't comment on >>>>>> > something it means I agree: >>>>>> > >>>>>> > --- In [email protected], "ED" <seacrofter001@> wrote: >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > Clues to the meaning of Zen >>>>>> > > Because Zen is so hard to explain here are some quotations that may >>>>>> > help >>>>>> > > you get an idea of it: >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > * The essence of Zen Buddhism is achieving enlightenment by seeing >>>>>> > > one's original mind (or original nature) directly; without the >>>>>> > > intervention of the intellect. >>>>>> > > * Zen is big on intuitive understanding, on just 'getting it', and >>>>>> > > not so hot on philosophising. >>>>>> > > * Zen is concerned with what actually is rather than what we think or >>>>>> > > feel about what is. >>>>>> > > * Zen is concerned with things as they are, without trying to >>>>>> > > interpret them. >>>>>> > > * Zen points to something before thinking, before all your ideas. >>>>>> > > * The key to Buddhahood in Zen is simply self-knowledge. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > [Bill!] I don't think 'knowledge' is a good choice of words. I'd >>>>>> > substitute 'awareness'. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > > * To be a human being is to be a Buddha. Buddha nature is just >>>>>> > > another name for human nature - true human nature. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > [Bill!] Buddha Nature applies to all sentient beings, not just humans. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > > * Zen is simply to be completely alive. >>>>>> > > * Zen is short for Zen Buddhism. It is sometimes called a religion >>>>>> > > and sometimes called a philosophy. Choose whichever term you prefer; >>>>>> > it >>>>>> > > simply doesn't matter. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > [Bill!] I definitely classify Zen Buddhism as a religion. All >>>>>> > religions do have some philosophy in them. Just plain 'zen' however is >>>>>> > not a religion or a philosphy. (See below) >>>>>> > >>>>>> > > * Zen is not a philosophy or a religion. >>>>>> > > * Zen tries to free the mind from the slavery of words and the >>>>>> > > constriction of logic. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > [Bill!] Zen doesn't 'try' to do anything. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > > * Zen in its essence is the art of seeing into the nature of one's >>>>>> > > own being, and it points the way from bondage to freedom. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > [Bill!] I don't like the references to 'bondage' and 'freedom'. Zen is >>>>>> > not a silver bullet-train to happiness. It is acceptance of life as-is. >>>>>> > > * Zen is meditation. >>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >
