Mayka, Yes, that would be an "extraordinary thought"!! It's not the living in the present moment that's the problem, it's the belief that there are moments we're not *always* living in the now (i.e "Damn, I was caught up in my thoughts for a while there. Better start being mindful and get back into living in the now." This is wrong thinking. We're always living in the now - it's never not now. Mindfulness doesn't "take" us there. As Alan Watts said, 'Where ever you go - there you are."
Mike ________________________________ From: Maria Lopez <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Fri, 1 April, 2011 7:08:42 Subject: Re: [Zen] Why bother with Zazen? Better Orgyhouse Mike; How it comes that living the present moment in awareness could become a double edged sword?. It never crossed my mind thinking "I've got mindfulness, yup-iii!", what an extraordinary thought!. However, I admit that I only practise diligent mindfulness most of times when I'm in my last legs. A bit like the Christians praying to God when they want something, with the difference that here the miracle is operated by oneself work. Well, at least I found the door and also know how to open it. Are there more doors than this?. Mayka --- On Thu, 31/3/11, mike brown <[email protected]> wrote: >From: mike brown <[email protected]> >Subject: Re: [Zen] Why bother with Zazen? Better Orgyhouse >To: [email protected] >Date: Thursday, 31 March, 2011, 22:31 > > > >Mayka, > >We just have to be careful with mindfulness - it's very much a double-edged >sword in that it can be the catalyst for awakening to reality, but it can also >make us think we've 'got it' when in fact it's nothing but our ego taking a >very >subtle rest. Also, we need to get past the way we think of mindfulness. In the >beginning we tend to find ourselves consciously employing it at specific >times. >"Right, I've done the tidying up, taken a shower and washed the dishes. Now >I'm >going to take the dog out and really focus on what I'm doing, feel the wind on >my face, not zone out and follow any thoughts and really be here" All well and >good. But what we've also done there, by definition, is to separate ourselves >between not being mindfull and being mindful which in turn also reinforces the >sense of separateness from our intrinsic awareness of Budhha. In simple >terms, there is an awareness that is unborn and undying right now whichin >Vedanta is expressed as 'I Am'. That awareness is right there with you when >you're washing the dishes and putting out the rubbish and is there prior to >just >when you think, "Now I'm going to practice mindfulness" and it's there when >you >stop being mindful. > >Mike > > > > ________________________________ From: Maria Lopez <[email protected]> >To: [email protected] >Sent: Thu, 31 March, 2011 7:39:29 >Subject: Re: [Zen] Why bother with Zazen? Better Orgyhouse > > >Mike: > >That's right Mike. However, previous indications in the map and tools >were most >useful to experience reality as it is, and not as we imagine it to be. > > >Mayka > > >--- On Wed, 30/3/11, mike brown <[email protected]> wrote: > > >>From: mike brown <[email protected]> >>Subject: Re: [Zen] Why bother with Zazen? Better Orgyhouse >>To: [email protected] >>Date: Wednesday, 30 March, 2011, 22:21 >> >> >> >>Mayka, >> >>>Bill has a point. The less adds on the most likely to experience reality as >>>it >>>is. >> >>Taken to the ultimate conclusion being that we don't need *any* of the >>precepts >>in mind to "experience reality as it is". >> >>Mike >> >> >> >> ________________________________ From: Maria Lopez <[email protected]> >>To: [email protected] >>Sent: Thu, 31 March, 2011 4:52:54 >>Subject: Re: [Zen] Why bother with Zazen? Better Orgyhouse >> >> >>Bill has a point. The less adds on the most likely to experience reality as >>it >>is. >> >>At the same time Steve also has a point. Living philosophies may embrace in >>compassion the whole universe. >> >> >>Mayka >> >>--- On Wed, 30/3/11, SteveW <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >>>From: SteveW <[email protected]> >>>Subject: Re: [Zen] Why bother with Zazen? Better Orgyhouse >>>To: [email protected] >>>Date: Wednesday, 30 March, 2011, 17:52 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>--- In [email protected], "Bill!" <BillSmart@...> wrote: >>>> >>>> Steve, >>>> >>>> I fundamentally disagree. >>>> >>>> Buddhism, as well as Judiasm/Christianity/Islam, and all other religions I >>>> know >>>>about are based on the essense of zen. They are all, including Buddhism, >>>>just >>>>layers that have been built up around zen and serve to occlude the essense >>>>of >>>>zen to varying extents. I will say that Buddhism has the least occluding >>>>layers >>>>of the religions I have read about, but it still has a lot. >>>> >>>> ...Bill! >>>> >>>Hi Bill! In my opinion, there are two aspects to the human phenomenon of >>>religion. One aspect is the evolved religios which binds society together in >>>a >>>shared identity. This is just an evolved trait that is useful from the >>>view-point of group selection. The other aspect is the awakened insight into >>>Suchness. But some religions as they exist now are more effective vehicles >>>for >>>encouraging awakened insight into Suchness than others. Within each of the >>>Big >>>Three Abrahamic traditions, there have arisen minority mystical movements >>>that >>>are a spontaneous expression of Enlightened Mind, but they have always been >>>regarded as heretical. Even the most literal-minded Pureland Buddhist >>>realizes >>>that the ultimate goal is awakening. They just want to go to Buddhist Heaven >>>where they imagine that awakening will be easier. But they still understand >>>that >>>ultimately it is more than just going to Heaven. And so, as you yourself >>>note, >>>Buddhism has the least occluding layers. The average Christian would not >>>regard >>>Meister Eckhart as being a real Christian. >>>Steve >>> >>> >> >
