Mayka, As there is no one drinking tea, then there is only drinking, and maybe the tea. No one is experiencing anything.
Good Sunday! And its already night here :-) Siska -----Original Message----- From: Maria Lopez <[email protected]> Sender: [email protected] Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 12:44:24 To: <[email protected]> Reply-To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Zen] Why bother with Zazen? Better Orgyhouse ....However; "as he was the tea" . Not as he was the tea. Drinking tea, one is only is drinking tea. No distractions of thoughts or mental projections taking one away from the activity experience of drinking the tea. Mayka --- On Sun, 10/4/11, Maria Lopez <[email protected]> wrote: From: Maria Lopez <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Zen] Why bother with Zazen? Better Orgyhouse To: [email protected] Date: Sunday, 10 April, 2011, 12:26 Yeah Siska! That's it! . Sunny and really pleasant warm Sunday here. It feels good! Sending its refreshing energy to you and all Mayka --- On Sun, 10/4/11, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: From: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Zen] Why bother with Zazen? Better Orgyhouse To: [email protected] Date: Sunday, 10 April, 2011, 2:09 Hi Mayka, -------------- what he meant by: " I know I'm drinking tea". He meant that he was entirely with the tea. -------------- .... As well as he 'was' the tea. Wish you days full of mindfulness :-) siska From: Maria Lopez <[email protected]> Sender: [email protected] Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 17:32:36 +0100 (BST) To: <[email protected]> ReplyTo: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Zen] Why bother with Zazen? Better Orgyhouse Siska: I may fail over the same as TNH and that is that for both us English is not our first language. This makes perfect for me as I coud have at once with no mental entanglemente what he meant by: " I know I'm drinking tea". He meant that he was entirely with the tea. He acknowledged he was drinking tea. Exactly as Bill interpretation was in his response. However, Bill plays with a little advantage here because he's a many years experienced practicioner and didn't allow the words shade the meaning. Practicing mindfulness is something very real I can asure you. I actually envy the people who can have such a discipline of living in the present moment. Present moment is the core in all zen traditions. Mindfulness and awareness are very much alike. If you are aware of something you are already mindful. If you are mindful you are already aware. There is no separation between these two words. Mayka --- On Sat, 9/4/11, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: From: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Zen] Why bother with Zazen? Better Orgyhouse To: [email protected] Date: Saturday, 9 April, 2011, 16:25 Hi Bill, Mayka, True, that's the way I got it. But even if it is not chanted like mantra, there is this difference between pure awareness of anything that is and awareness that knows (for lack of better term) what is. This awareness that knows that I'm drinking tea (with or without labelling or further thinking about the tea) is the same awareness that gives rise to what I call "sense-of-I". It separates the awareness itself from what is being observed, ie. I'm drinking tea. I also found some people call this awareness 'mindfulness', which I don't think is 'real' (again, for lack of better term) mindfulness. Siska From: "Bill!" <[email protected]> Sender: [email protected] Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2011 12:54:35 -0000 To: <[email protected]> ReplyTo: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Zen] Why bother with Zazen? Better Orgyhouse Mayka, For me the misleading phrase was 'mentally name'. That sounds like you're going to just think 'drinking tea now, drinking tea now, ...' over and over in your head like a mantra. I didn't think that's what you meant...Bill! --- In [email protected], Maria Lopez <flordeloto@...> wrote: > > Bill; > You're interpretation is correct.  Appreciate a lot your imput and help > with the English language. Which words was I using leading to believe that I > was thinking of drinking tea? >  > Do I really express myself in such a broken English that only you is able to > understand?. Wow, and thought that it was so clear!!! >  > Mayka >  >  >  --- On Sat, 9/4/11, Bill! <BillSmart@...> wrote: > > > From: Bill! <BillSmart@...> > Subject: Re: [Zen] Why bother with Zazen? Better Orgyhouse > To: [email protected] > Date: Saturday, 9 April, 2011, 3:49 > > >  > > > > I'm going to jump in here because I see this from both perspectives - I think > - and I think it is another matter of miscommunication. > > If you're drinking tea and thinking of something else (like as 'as soon as > I'm done with my tea I'll go out and mow the lawn') then I'm sure you'd both > agree that is not 'mindfulness'. > > ED is saying if you're drinking tea and THINKING about drinking tea (like > 'gee this tea is really good!') then that also is not mindfulness. I agree. > > Mayka is saying when you drink tea you should only be drinking tea - nothing > else. She uses words that sound like she's thinking about drinking tea, but I > don't beleive that's what she means. She means Just THIS! When you're > drinking tea, Just THIS! is drinking tea. When you mowing you lawn, Just > THIS! is mowing your lawn. This is what I beleive Mayka means. If so, I agree. > > ...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], Maria Lopez <flordeloto@> wrote: > > > > ED; > >  > > Do you think so?. I used this method for various years and seemed to > > work particularly during retreats. Away from retreats and after a > > while I have to admit as far as my personal experience concerns no > > methods have worked out for me so far as emotions concerns.  When I > > feel bad not only I feel bad but also have the necessity to share with > > other fellows human beings that I'm feeling bad. I don't manage to get > > adjusted to this buddhisht-zen holiness where everybody seem to have > > all emotions under control.  > >  > > We are what we are and thinking to change oneselves is the biggest illusion > > I've ever heard from all. In fact, Can a rose change it's nature of > > being a rose and became a carnation?.  > >  > >  Eventually we always come back to where we were. Nothing > > change. There is no walk though it looks like as if it were. I > > haven't learnt anything. I know nothing. > >  > > Mayka > >  > >  > > --- On Thu, 7/4/11, ED <seacrofter001@> wrote: > > > > > > From: ED <seacrofter001@> > > Subject: Re: [Zen] Why bother with Zazen? Better Orgyhouse > > To: [email protected] > > Date: Thursday, 7 April, 2011, 16:05 > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > Mayka, if you are mentally naming it, you are using your rational mind. > > -ED > >  > > --- In [email protected], Maria Lopez <flordeloto@> wrote: > > > > > Hi Siska: > >  > > By the term "acknowledging" means to be aware of what is happening > > there. For instance: If you have a headache you mentally name: > > "headache". By the only acknowledgement of the headache many other > > sensations, impact of the headache in your whole body and body > > language will come into awareness through it. > >  > > A much short example: > >  > > 1- I'm drinking tea (I'm drinking tea in an automatic way. There has > > not been an acknowledgement in the action. The head is > > distracted somewhere else away from the tea I'm drinking). > >  > > 2- I know I'm drinking tea. ( I have acknowledged drinking tea. I > > know what I'm doing. My head is not distracted from the action of > > drinking tea) > >  > > Important not to exchange labelling for acknoledgement. Labelling is > > mental exercise while acknowledgement goes with the motion of the present > > moment continuosly traveling and changing . > >  > > Mayka > > >
