More tea? ...Bill!
--- In [email protected], Maria Lopez <flordeloto@...> wrote: > > Siska: >  > I let this one to Bill. I wouldn't know what to say. It sounds a little > bit complicated for me to say anything. >  > Off from computer now. > Good night sleep well. Here lunch time. > Mayka > > --- On Sun, 10/4/11, siska_cen@... <siska_cen@...> wrote: > > > From: siska_cen@... <siska_cen@...> > Subject: Re: [Zen] Why bother with Zazen? Better Orgyhouse > To: [email protected] > Date: Sunday, 10 April, 2011, 13:06 > > >  > > > > Mayka, > > As there is no one drinking tea, then there is only drinking, and maybe the > tea. > No one is experiencing anything. > > Good Sunday! > And its already night here :-) > > Siska > > > From: Maria Lopez <flordeloto@...> > Sender: [email protected] > Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 12:44:24 +0100 (BST) > To: <[email protected]> > ReplyTo: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Zen] Why bother with Zazen? Better Orgyhouse > >  > > > > > > > ....However; "as he was the tea" . Not as he was the tea.  Drinking tea, >  one is only is drinking tea. No distractions of thoughts or mental > projections taking one away from the activity experience of drinking the > tea. > Mayka > > --- On Sun, 10/4/11, Maria Lopez <flordeloto@...> wrote: > > > From: Maria Lopez <flordeloto@...> > Subject: Re: [Zen] Why bother with Zazen? Better Orgyhouse > To: [email protected] > Date: Sunday, 10 April, 2011, 12:26 > > >  > > > > > > > Yeah Siska! That's it! . >  > Sunny and really pleasant warm Sunday here. > It feels good! > Sending its refreshing energy to you and all > Mayka >  > > > --- On Sun, 10/4/11, siska_cen@... <siska_cen@...> wrote: > > > From: siska_cen@... <siska_cen@...> > Subject: Re: [Zen] Why bother with Zazen? Better Orgyhouse > To: [email protected] > Date: Sunday, 10 April, 2011, 2:09 > > >  > > Hi Mayka, > > -------------- > what he meant by: " I know I'm drinking tea". He meant that he was entirely > with the tea. > -------------- > .... As well as he 'was' the tea. > > Wish you days full of mindfulness > > :-) > siska > > > From: Maria Lopez <flordeloto@...> > Sender: [email protected] > Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 17:32:36 +0100 (BST) > To: <[email protected]> > ReplyTo: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Zen] Why bother with Zazen? Better Orgyhouse > >  > > > > > > > Siska: >  > I may fail over the same as TNH and that is that for both us English is not > our first language. This makes perfect for me as I coud have at once with > no mental entanglemente what he meant by: " I know I'm drinking tea". He > meant that he was entirely with the tea. He acknowledged he was drinking > tea. Exactly as Bill interpretation was in his response. However, Bill > plays with a little advantage here because he's a many years experienced > practicioner and didn't allow the words shade the meaning. >  > Practicing mindfulness is something very real I can asure you.  I actually > envy the people who can have such a discipline of living in the present > moment. Present moment is the core in all zen traditions. Mindfulness and > awareness are very much alike. If you are aware of something you are > already mindful. If you are mindful you are already aware. There is no > separation between these two words. >  > Mayka >  > > --- On Sat, 9/4/11, siska_cen@... <siska_cen@...> wrote: > > > From: siska_cen@... <siska_cen@...> > Subject: Re: [Zen] Why bother with Zazen? Better Orgyhouse > To: [email protected] > Date: Saturday, 9 April, 2011, 16:25 > > >  > > Hi Bill, Mayka, > > True, that's the way I got it. > > But even if it is not chanted like mantra, there is this difference between > pure awareness of anything that is and awareness that knows (for lack of > better term) what is. This awareness that knows that I'm drinking tea (with > or without labelling or further thinking about the tea) is the same awareness > that gives rise to what I call "sense-of-I". It separates the awareness > itself from what is being observed, ie. I'm drinking tea. I also found some > people call this awareness 'mindfulness', which I don't think is 'real' > (again, for lack of better term) mindfulness. > > Siska > > > From: "Bill!" <BillSmart@...> > Sender: [email protected] > Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2011 12:54:35 -0000 > To: <[email protected]> > ReplyTo: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Zen] Why bother with Zazen? Better Orgyhouse > >  > > Mayka, > > For me the misleading phrase was 'mentally name'. That sounds like you're > going to just think 'drinking tea now, drinking tea now, ...' over and over > in your head like a mantra. I didn't think that's what you meant...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], Maria Lopez <flordeloto@> wrote: > > > > Bill; > > You're interpretation is correct.ààAppreciate a lot your imput and > > help with the Englishàlanguage. Which words was I using leading to > > believe that I was thinking of drinking tea? > > à> > Do I really express myself in such a broken English that only you is able > > to understand?.àWow, and thought that it was so clear!!! > > à> > Mayka > > à> > à> > à--- On Sat, 9/4/11, Bill! <BillSmart@> wrote: > > > > > > From: Bill! <BillSmart@> > > Subject: Re: [Zen] Why bother with Zazen? Better Orgyhouse > > To: [email protected] > > Date: Saturday, 9 April, 2011, 3:49 > > > > > > à> > > > > > > > I'm going to jump in here because I see this from both perspectives - I > > think - and I think it is another matter of miscommunication. > > > > If you're drinking tea and thinking of something else (like as 'as soon as > > I'm done with my tea I'll go out and mow the lawn') then I'm sure you'd > > both agree that is not 'mindfulness'. > > > > ED is saying if you're drinking tea and THINKING about drinking tea (like > > 'gee this tea is really good!') then that also is not mindfulness. I agree. > > > > Mayka is saying when you drink tea you should only be drinking tea - > > nothing else. She uses words that sound like she's thinking about drinking > > tea, but I don't beleive that's what she means. She means Just THIS! When > > you're drinking tea, Just THIS! is drinking tea. When you mowing you lawn, > > Just THIS! is mowing your lawn. This is what I beleive Mayka means. If so, > > I agree. > > > > ...Bill! > > > > --- In [email protected], Maria Lopez <flordeloto@> wrote: > > > > > > ED; > > > Ãâà> > > Do you think so?.ÃâàI used this method for various years and > > > seemed to work particularly during retreats.ÃâàAway from retreats > > > and after a whileÃâàI have to admit as far as my personal > > > experience concerns no methods have worked out for me so far as emotions > > > concerns.ÃâàÃâàWhen I feel bad not only I feel bad but also > > > have the necessity to share with other fellows human beings that I'm > > > feeling bad.ÃâàI don't manage to get adjusted to this > > > buddhisht-zen holinessÃâàwhere everybody seem toÃâàhave all > > > emotions under control. Ãâà> > > Ãâà> > > We are what we are and thinking to change oneselves is the biggest > > > illusion I've ever heard from all.ÃâàIn fact, Can a rose > > > changeÃâàit's nature of being a rose and became a > > > carnation?.ÃâàÃâà> > > Ãâà> > > ÃâàEventually we always come back to where we were.Ãâà> > > Nothing change.ÃâàThere is no walk though it looks like as if it > > > were.ÃâàI haven't learnt anything.ÃâàI know > > > nothing.Ãâà> > > Ãâà> > > Mayka > > > Ãâà> > > Ãâà> > > --- On Thu, 7/4/11, ED <seacrofter001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: ED <seacrofter001@> > > > Subject: Re: [Zen] Why bother with Zazen? Better Orgyhouse > > > To: [email protected] > > > Date: Thursday, 7 April, 2011, 16:05 > > > > > > > > > Ãâà> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ãâà> > > Mayka, if you are mentally naming it, you are using your rational > > > mind.Ãâà-ED > > > Ãâà> > > --- In [email protected], Maria Lopez <flordeloto@> wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Siska: > > > Ãâà> > > By the term "acknowledging" means to be aware of what is happening > > > there.ÃâàFor instance: If you have a headache you mentally name: > > > "headache".ÃâàBy the only acknowledgement of the headache many > > > other sensations, impact of the headache in your whole bodyÃâàand > > > body languageÃâàwill come into awareness through it.Ãâà> > > Ãâà> > > A much short example: > > > Ãâà> > > 1- I'm drinking tea (I'm drinking tea in an automatic way.ÃâàThere > > > has not been an acknowledgement in the action.ÃâàThe head is > > > distractedÃâàsomewhere else away from the tea I'm drinking). > > > Ãâà> > > 2- I know I'm drinking tea.Ãâà( I have acknowledged drinking > > > tea.ÃâàI know what I'm doing.ÃâàMy head is not distracted > > > from the action of drinking tea) > > > Ãâà> > > Important not to exchange labelling for acknoledgement.Ãâà> > > Labelling is mental exercise while acknowledgement goes with the motion > > > of the present moment continuosly traveling and changing . > > > Ãâà> > > Mayka > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! 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