Hello All,

Definitions:     Zen = Zen Buddhism;     zen = Zen minus the Buddhism

The Noble Eightfold Path is sometimes divided into three basic
categories as follows:


I.  Wisdom (Sanskrit: prajna, Pali: panna)

1. Right understanding

2. Right intention

II.  Ethical conduct (Sanskrit and Pali: sila)

3. Right speech

4. Right action

5. Right livelihood

III.  Concentration (Sanskrit and Pali: samadhi)

6. Right effort

7. Right mindfulness

8. Right concentration


o   Theravada Buddhism embraces all three categories of the Noble
Eightfold Path.

o   Zen accepts all three categories, but tends to de-emphasize I and
II, in my obsevation/knowledge/belief.

o   zen accepts category III only, or possibly only steps 7. and 8. of
category III.

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Zenists (and zenists) seek to achieve, or, without seeking, achieve in
kensho-satori, glimpses of: a sense of no-self or no I/me/mine; a sense
of an absolute nondual reality; a sense of nothing arising or perishing;
a sense of freedom from all bonds; and a sense of seeing directly and
deeply into the nature of things, without discriminating or discursive
thinking.

The experience of the ineffable mind-space decribed above has been
labeled 'realizing Buddha Nature".

I say 'glimpses of a sense of'' because we have to take the practitioner
at his/her word, or the Zen Teacher at his/her word for this
accomplishment or non-accomplishment of a student of Zen experiencing
the above state.

And, it doesn't really matter because, no tangible benefits are promised
to ensue from these experiences. Do non-experiencers of kensho-satori
observe any tangible, positive transformation in Zenists who have
experienced kensho-satori? We do not know.

------



Of the dozens and dozens of zen/Zen centers in the US, perhaps only one
advocates 'zen'. Possibly for now we ought to only focus on comparing
Theravada Buddhism with *Zen*, and leave out zen.



Daniel, kindly tell us if through Theravada Buddhist practices,
experiences of mind-states similar to the ones in kensho-satori tend to
arise.

Thanks, ED



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