Hi Ed,

I still cannot figure out clearly what kensho actually is, but from the 
descriptions, it looks like kensho is very similar to nyana (insight) 
experience as in Mahasi tradition in Theravada.

Daniel, looking forward to your opinion (or correction). 

Siska
-----Original Message-----
From: "ED" <[email protected]>
Sender: [email protected]
Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 13:45:08 
To: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
Subject: [Zen] Zen, zen and Theravada Buddhism




Hello All,

Definitions:     Zen = Zen Buddhism;     zen = Zen minus the Buddhism

The Noble Eightfold Path is sometimes divided into three basic
categories as follows:


I.  Wisdom (Sanskrit: prajna, Pali: panna)

1. Right understanding

2. Right intention

II.  Ethical conduct (Sanskrit and Pali: sila)

3. Right speech

4. Right action

5. Right livelihood

III.  Concentration (Sanskrit and Pali: samadhi)

6. Right effort

7. Right mindfulness

8. Right concentration


o   Theravada Buddhism embraces all three categories of the Noble
Eightfold Path.

o   Zen accepts all three categories, but tends to de-emphasize I and
II, in my obsevation/knowledge/belief.

o   zen accepts category III only, or possibly only steps 7. and 8. of
category III.

-------

Zenists (and zenists) seek to achieve, or, without seeking, achieve in
kensho-satori, glimpses of: a sense of no-self or no I/me/mine; a sense
of an absolute nondual reality; a sense of nothing arising or perishing;
a sense of freedom from all bonds; and a sense of seeing directly and
deeply into the nature of things, without discriminating or discursive
thinking.

The experience of the ineffable mind-space decribed above has been
labeled 'realizing Buddha Nature".

I say 'glimpses of a sense of'' because we have to take the practitioner
at his/her word, or the Zen Teacher at his/her word for this
accomplishment or non-accomplishment of a student of Zen experiencing
the above state.

And, it doesn't really matter because, no tangible benefits are promised
to ensue from these experiences. Do non-experiencers of kensho-satori
observe any tangible, positive transformation in Zenists who have
experienced kensho-satori? We do not know.

------



Of the dozens and dozens of zen/Zen centers in the US, perhaps only one
advocates 'zen'. Possibly for now we ought to only focus on comparing
Theravada Buddhism with *Zen*, and leave out zen.



Daniel, kindly tell us if through Theravada Buddhist practices,
experiences of mind-states similar to the ones in kensho-satori tend to
arise.

Thanks, ED




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