Bill, So, you are saying that halting a dicriminating mind is a criterion of calling an experience Buddha Nature. That makes sense. We should not rule out there are other types of experiences that also make you feel good, such as union with the universe, even the ecstacy arising from Tantric rituals. That makes the world colorful. On the other hand, if you continue to say RENZAI, I will increase the caning reserved for you from one to two. Remember, it is RINZAI !! Anthony
--- On Mon, 27/6/11, billsmart <[email protected]> wrote: From: billsmart <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Zen] Why Practice Chan? To: [email protected] Date: Monday, 27 June, 2011, 11:01 AM Zendervish, You asked: > How would you know if you experienced "Buddha Nature?" That's a good question. I posted an answer to this but then deleted it realizing it was insufficient. In that post I used an analogy of experiencing 'hot' when touching fire, but that was really not a good example. I'll still use the examples of fire and Buddha nature to answer your question but in a slightly different way. *** FIRE *** When I touch fire I have a sensory experience. When you touch fire you have a sensory experience. I don't really know if my experience and your experience are exactly the same, but I assume it is. When I touch fire my reaction might be 'Ouch!' When you touch fire your reaction might be 'Oo-wee!', or sticking your fingers in your mouth. Our initial reactions are pre-thinking, pre-intellect. THIS IS THE END OF THE EXPERIENCE - what follows below is Maya (illusory): If this was the first time we have ever had this experience we might then think, 'What was that?', and make a judgement 'That felt bad', and categorize the experience, 'Touching fire is dangerous'. We may want to describe our experience to others, 'bad', 'pain', 'intense' and eventually give it a name, 'hot' or 'burn'. On the other hand if we had heard about or read about a description of an experience that seemed the same as this one, and knew a name for that experience was 'burn', we might just adopt that name and describe our experience as 'burn', and assume it was the same as the 'burn' described by others. Maybe someone who had never touched fire or had the experience named 'burn' touches dry ice. That person would experience much the same things as the person who touched fire, and that person might beleive that by touching dry ice he has experienced 'burn'. Someone else hearing this account may reject that and say this person had not experience 'burn' because he did not touch fire, but touched dry ice and declare this 'burn' experience invalid or at least mis-identified. *** BUDDHA NATURE *** Experience of Buddha Nature is much the same as this. Your discriminating mind halts and you do experience something. You do have a reaction. That reaction varies from person to person. THIS IS THE END OF THE EXPERIENCE - what follows below is Maya (illusory). If this was the first time we have ever had this experience we might then think, 'What was that?', and make a judgement 'That felt good', and categorize the experience, 'Halting your discriminating mind is very desireable'. We may want to describe our experience to others, 'good', 'clear', 'free' and eventually give it a name: 'Mu!', or 'The Oak Tree in the Garden', or slapping the floor, or just turning around and walking away - or in my case 'Just THIS!'. On the other hand if we had heard about or read about a description of an experience that seemed the same as this one, and knew a name for that experience was 'Buddha Nature', we might just adopt that name and describe our experience as 'Buddha Nature', and assume it was the same as the 'Buddha Nature' described by others. Maybe someone who had never halted their discriminating mind or had the experience named 'Buddha Nature' has some kind of mystical experience. That person would experience much the same things as the person who halted their discriminating mind, and that person might beleive that this mystical experience was 'Buddha Nature'. Someone else hearing this account may reject that and say this person had not experienced 'Buddha Nature' because he did not halt his descriminating mind, but had an illusory mystical experience and declare this 'Buddha Nature' experience invalid or at least mis-identified. **** So now I'll answer your question by repeating (and modifying slightly in light of the explanations above) my answer I posted to a similar question from Siska several days ago: The most important reason and the only one that really matters is that I have experienced halting my discriminating mind while working on the koan Mu. Once you have experienced halting your discriminating mind you know that there is only one experience like this and there can be no mistaking it for something else. I beleive all experiences of halting your discriminating mind are the same. Secondary reasons are: - my experience was formally validated by two teachers (zen masters)of both the Renzai and Soto Japanese Zen Buddhist schools. They both used various names for this experience such as 'kensho' or 'satori' or 'Buddha Nature' or 'Buddha Mind' or 'Big Mind'. - my experience was informally validated by many other teachers and other zen practitioners - my experience corresponds (in my opinion) with both historical and modern-day written accounts of the same experience ***** So I really can't say for sure that I experienced the same experience as Siddharta Buddha, or Joshu, or Koryu Roshi - but I beleive I did. And the important thing is not whether my experience was the same as theirs but that I did experience something that has changed my life and that is the foundation of my continuing practice. I call it 'Buddha Nature'. ...Bill!
