Mike, I believe the story in the Bible of the 'Garden of Eden' is a mythologized description of what mankind's life was like before he became too dependent upon and attached to his rational mind (dualism - Knowledge of Good and Evil). Before that he lived at one with God - in the Garden of Eden.
...Bill! --- In [email protected], mike brown <uerusuboyo@...> wrote: > > Merle, > > It's a nice sentiment to try to do that, isn't it? I guess the problem is is > that we collect too much dust in our eyes as we acquire more of what the > world teaches us. I do have a vague memory/feeling tho, of playing in my > parent's garden and it being what the Garden of Eden must be like. I would've > been less surprised to come across the Cheshire Cat than I would if I'd come > across the tabby next door. > > Mike > > > > > > From: Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@...>To: "[email protected]" > <[email protected]> > > Sent: Friday, 3 August 2012, 8:56 > Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Chan and zen > > >  > > >  look at life through the eyes of a young child... fresh, always alert and > forever curious..merle > > >  > Chris, > > >So I guess my question is that having now had a great deal more chance > to see from the non-dual perspective, do you find that the initial > experience you wrote about was really basically ordinary, but so far our of > your thinking that you were surprised at its nature?  Or do you find it > leaves you feeling there is some progression to your practice and > liberation, and your ordinary experience before that seeing is not like > your ordinary experience now? < > > Thanks for reading and asking questions. All I can say about it is that the > objects we normally take for granted were seen as they really are because the > web of concepts we usually overlay them with was removed. They just were. It > struck me at the time (during the episode) that seeing this way was the most > natural and real way of seeing, except not seeing with the eyes, and that it > was all so obvious. It was more like the objects were and I wasn't (Which is > why Dogen's '10,000 things' resonates). I have to say that my ordinary > experience is not like it was before, but neither is it like it was during > the experience, which is why I do feel there is some progression to my > practice and liberation. It's not for the purpose of recapturing a past > experience (like a drug high), but to get to the bottom of what it's all > about. In a way, I've answered 'yes' to both your questions, but > contradictions seem okay now, too. > > Mike > > > > ________________________________ > From: Chris Austin-Lane <chris@...> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Friday, 3 August 2012, 4:15 > Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Chan and zen > > >  > This thread has been very interesting, but I have a question for Mike.  I am > honored that you shared your experience with us, and I hope I can address a > question without antagonizing you - it's a real question I have, and I am > perfectly willing to hear any honest answer.  > > As far as I can tell, every time one slows down the rush of thinking a bit, > out pops such a lovely universe as these dramatic experiences seem to > highlight.  But, other than the strong emotions, I don't read anything in > these mystical experiences that isn't there each moment, in the quiet still > space that attending lets us notice.    After each exhalation, perfect > stillness, balanced on the burning tip of creation.  Something like that.  > > I've not had an enlightenment experience as a part of zen training*, but they > don't read as different from my frequent realizing I'm lost in day dreams and > returning to attentive zazen - tho that realization is rather dull, it has > the full sense of okness and the noticeable lack of distinct boundaries. >  When I stop crinkling up my mind, and attend to what Bill! calls raw > sensory input, living is awfully pretty and crystalline and wonderful; even > in the middle of an argument with my wife or kids, here we are; how can I not > smile a bit (unless it would upset the companions)?  I have a fairly > pleasant and orderly life, to be sure, but even crashing on my bike is > interesting.  That slight shift in perspective happens many times a day, but > each time I let go (of *my* thoughts, *my* preferences, *my* expectations), > my ass unclenches and I find that the moment is indeed complete and > sufficient.  > > So I guess my question is that having now had a great deal more chance to see > from the non-dual perspective, do you find that the initial experience you > wrote about was really basically ordinary, but so far our of your thinking > that you were surprised at its nature?  Or do you find it leaves you feeling > there is some progression to your practice and liberation, and your ordinary > experience before that seeing is not like your ordinary experience now? > > > Thanks, > > --Chris > chris@... > +1-301-270-6524 > > *I had a couple of "it's ok, all is one" experiences as a child, and > occasionally as a parent (being a parent seems to for me to bring out all > sorts of states of love and wonder, due I guess to the physical exhaustion, > total dedication, and lack of personal wilfulness), that seem sort of like > what people describe, tho of course it had nothing to do with zen training as > I only started that a few years ago.  > > > On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 7:12 PM, Joe <desert_woodworker@...> wrote: > > Ed, > > > >Hugh bet that zen teachers use the word "samadhi'.  Not many talk > >about it.  Except in dokusan.  It's not a secret, but maybe since > >about half the folks on sesshin are pretty new, teachers do not make > >a big deal about it in public, while the old-timers of course are > >just bathed in it, to their eyebrows.  Or we can hope, so. > > > >--Joe > > > > > >"ED" <seacrofter001@> wrote: > >> > >> Mike, > >> > >> Samadhi has numerous meanings.  What do you mean by 'samadhi'?  Joe, > >> what do you mean by 'samadhi' ?   Do Zen masters ever use the term > >> 'samadhi'? > > > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------ > > > >Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are > >reading! 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