Joe, I know what you mean, but those simple instructions conceal a much trickier journey than one first suspects: it's only 5 miles to the top of Everest and just keeping going straight... up.
I think personal temperament, especially, and other various factors play a vital role in the path one finds and sticks with. I'm generally very unstructured, not methodical and pay scant attention to detail. Yet discovering Vipassana was a huge revelation for me and seems to suit me well. Same with the 10-day Vipassana retreats. 11 hours of meditation a day; strict adherence to Noble Silence; up at 3.30am and lights out at 9pm; last meal of the day at 11am; 3 one hour sittings with no movement at all (they used to take a vow not to move). Pretty much the SAS of meditation. I'd hazard a guess the 'danger' is decided by the pyschological/spiritual makeup of the individual and even there particular life history, rather than the method of meditation per se. My concern in the last few posts, is that people seem to be saying that one way is better than the other. From what I can make out, and from what I've heard from actual teachers in both schools, is a mutual respect for each other's path. Isn't that the beauty of Buddha's teaching on upayya (skilful means) - that Buddhism can include a whole kaleidoscope of teachings suitable for all kinds of different individuals and cultures? We're so privileged in the west to have all these rich and historical schools of Buddhism to try. Keep the traditions alive and vive la difference! Mike ________________________________ From: Joe <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, 8 August 2012, 2:37 Subject: [Zen] Re: Guided Meditation with Joseph Goldstein - YouTube Mike, Actually, I think it's easy to talk about methods and about practice. It's also important to be clear with ourselves, and clear with others about such things, if we practice; so, if we practice, and are asked something about practice or methods, we usually can spit it out. Some of the things I find fascinating and which I respect in the Vipassana tradition are the methods themselves and the very careful methodical way of study. I admit that, for me, this is too much like work, and I mean my actual profession. Other scientists are drawn to Vipassana work, but I am not. Yet, I can learn from it! I like the radical -- VERY radical -- way of zen (practice). An old adage in Zen tradition is: "Get at the root, don't worry about the branches." This is the kind of assured and certain talk that I have always loved and which for some reason my particular "weird" is amenable to. So I latched on early, finding sweet water there, and have stayed with it for almost 40 years but practicing formally only 33 years to date in the Ch'an tradition (Yoga- and Sufi- sitting previously, polluted with my early readings in Zen). Zen practice is a little dangerous, I'd say, because sometimes a lot of force is used during special practice situations (sesshin; retreat). A teacher is essential, to keep us out of danger, at least ultimately. And to roll us like an unruly, recalcitrant, unbalanced stone toward an actual awakening, and not to a false dawn. We really need that guidance and push, if we work in the Zen way. So, a teacher in zen is a necessity. I don't know if Vipassana people can be as badly endangered or become scarred as deeply as zen people can, sometimes. I suspect not, since in Vipassana work a lot of attention seems to be given to "the branches", and there is not as obvious an all-out attack on the root such as we undertake and undergo in Zen practice, with a teacher's very close help. Anyway, practice keeps changing, no matter what. I don't feel in danger now, but I have buried three zen teachers in the past 33 years and have no teacher now. I don't feel alone. Sheng Yen continues to be something like a constant companion, and I thank him. Sheng Yen also taught us to use the Sutras to test ourselves if we have no teacher about: our experience or awakening should accord with them, else, it is false or incomplete. And folks I chat with here and there are generous and kind and keep giving me gifts. --Joe > mike brown <uerusuboyo@...> wrote: > > Joe, > > Thanks for indulging me and doing such a good job of putting into words [snip] > > There seems to be quite a few definite differences, yet one fundamental > similarity, between Zen and vipassana. [snip] > > It is the differences in the path to liberation that interests me. [snip]
