Dear Merle, Thanks for enhancing my Bodhisattva nature! :-)
A bow... Edgar On Aug 30, 2012, at 8:35 PM, Merle Lester wrote: > > hi edgar...... > > .many thanks...i appreciate this advice > > ..i do brood.. > > . it's not easy to let go... > > i try > > i learn > > i am after all human and with many failings > > merle > > > Hi Merle, > > It's easy to say but difficult to do... > > Being biological humans have natural visceral emotional responses to events. > However this depends also on the mental understanding and in head narratives > about such events, or even feared or anticipated events that haven't even > happened. > > Example: Someone does something 'bad' to you and there is a natural > biological response of hurt. But then you start brooding on it obsessively > over and over and the mental narrative and the emotional suffering form a > self perpetuating feedback loop that goes on and on. > > That's not Zen. The feedback loop is broken by changing the narrative which > is what you have control over. > > The harmful event has vanished, so should the suffering vanish. The correct > narrative is reality itself which has now changed and one should be > interacting with what exists in the present moment rather than something > which happened in the past and no longer exists. > > Nothing wrong with enjoying your garden. Just realize it could be destroyed > at any moment and accept that possibility to avoid attachment. > > Not sure if this is clear or not but it's the key to avoiding attachment. > Dealing with reality as it actually is rather than how you want it to be. > Attachments always have to do with wishing reality was different than it > actually is... > > Edgar > > > On Aug 30, 2012, at 7:44 AM, Merle Lester wrote: > >> >> >> >> edgar..you are absolutely right..tell me how i can move past this >> point...be my teacher please...merle >> >> >> Merle, >> >> The problem with being happily mired in ignorance and being attached to all >> the good things in your life is that you then are going to be equally >> attached to any bad things that happen.... >> >> That's why Buddha spoke of the Middle Way and freeing oneself from ALL >> attachments, both the pleasant and unpleasant ones... >> >> Edgar >> >> >> >> On Aug 29, 2012, at 10:31 PM, Merle Lester wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> illusions...huh? >>> peck away edgar >>> strip me bare >>> free from my bondage from >>> those golden daffodils and pixies that are calling me..".come hither..play >>> with us" >>> merle...dancing to the tune of "wild thing" >>> >>> >>> >>> Bill and Merle, >>> >>> I second that. Merle is a fighter and I don't think she'll leave just >>> because Edgar pecks away at her illusions! >>> >>> She does have a thin skin sometimes but that of course is because she still >>> has attachments as do we all >>> :-) >>> >>> Edgar >>> >>> >>> >>> On Aug 28, 2012, at 9:23 PM, Bill! wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Speaking for Al, the forum owner, and both the moderators, Edgar and me, >>>> we all hope you stay. We get a commission on each post and your membership >>>> here has already moved up the date of my retirement by several weeks... >>>> >>>> ...Bill! >>>> >>>> --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@...> wrote: >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Â right..edgar..maybe this zen is not for me...why are you saying crazy >>>> > new age fantasy? >>>> > >>>> > ...there are plenty of practises of a human kind that believe in nature >>>> > and nature's spirits...communicating with nature. e.g australian >>>> > aborigines >>>> > .it is not new fangled dangled... >>>> > Â merle. >>>> > .worshipping and communicating with the sun this morning at 6:30am >>>> > >>>> > Â >>>> > Merle, >>>> > >>>> > Reread paragraph 4 Merle. I said nothing of the sort... I was talking >>>> > about incorrect facts, not the spiritual awe of reality. >>>> > >>>> > Do you understand the difference? You don't have to think the flower >>>> > understands what you say to it to appreciate the flower. Zen is >>>> > realizing and appreciating the TRUE nature of the flower, not some crazy >>>> > New Age fantasy facts you project onto it. >>>> > >>>> > Edgar >>>> > >>>> > On Aug 28, 2012, at 8:47 AM, Merle Lester wrote: >>>> > >>>> > > thank you for your clarification edgar >>>> > > >>>> > > ..remind me never to see the poetry in the dancing daffodil or listen >>>> > > to the music that the leaves on the trees sing. >>>> > > ..remind me i must be ever vigilant unless i fall from grace and am >>>> > > reduced to praise and awe and wonder at the beauty of mother nature >>>> > > especially her most glorious of all...her sexual delights in the form >>>> > > of flowers never again to listen to their glorious voices >>>> > > >>>> > > ..remind me that i must always remain ever scientific ever logical and >>>> > > alert to childish silly fantasy games and illusions.. >>>> > > never again must i listen to the wind and the grasses when they speak. >>>> > > ..goodness me and oh jesus christ ..what would the red skin indian say >>>> > > to your theories edgar? >>>> > > >>>> > > ...edgar save me from such silly ways >>>> > > ..for life is not a bowl of cherries >>>> > > it is hard real world made from solid rock..solid knowledge based on >>>> > > facts and figures >>>> > > ..and if one dare to fall and fall to such fancies as projecting a >>>> > > human quality to a plant life and me daring to speak plant >>>> > > language..strike me dumb >>>> > > so i may never speak again of such unheard things.. >>>> > > >>>> > > ... merle..the wolf carrying a bright yellow daffodil as a peace >>>> > > offering to those who know what sitting bull would have replied >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > Joe, >>>> > > >>>> > > Flowers do have 'senses' in the sense that they have receptors for and >>>> > > respond to light, touch, chemical signals and possibly sound. They >>>> > > have fairly complex internal electrical and chemical signaling >>>> > > systems.... >>>> > > >>>> > > What I doubt is Merle's contention that her plants listen to her and >>>> > > respond to what she says.... There is no evolutionary reason they >>>> > > should do so and no scientific evidence that they do.... >>>> > > >>>> > > I'd say Merle is projecting here which is a dangerous form of illusion >>>> > > and the antithesis of Zen.... >>>> > > >>>> > > There is a subtle Zen point here. It's fine to have personal myths >>>> > > like this so long as one realizes they are just fun fantasy, games and >>>> > > illusion and NOT reality. Illusion recognized as illusion is reality, >>>> > > illusion seen as reality is illusion.... >>>> > > >>>> > > One of the most dangerous illusions to Zen is the various 'New Age' >>>> > > wishful thinking that falsely projects goody goody saccharin fake >>>> > > sweetness on reality. It's like astrology, numerology, anti-scientific >>>> > > religious delusions and the various forms of 'spiritualism' that all >>>> > > attempt to project the delusions of mind onto reality. >>>> > > >>>> > > There is no realization so long as one is mired in these illusions... >>>> > > >>>> > > Edgar >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > On Aug 28, 2012, at 12:31 AM, Joe wrote: >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > >> Glenn, >>>> > >> >>>> > >> With respect, I *doubt* these "instrumental revelations". >>>> > >> >>>> > >> I am a professional and an expert in Scientific Instrumentation, and >>>> > >> I have nothing but doubts about these botanical "experiments" that >>>> > >> are so often cited. I believe they are BS; and, if you have a while, >>>> > >> I can show you exactly why. Well, it may not be easy to get together. >>>> > >> >>>> > >> But, keep a skeptical -- and an open -- mind, I suggest! >>>> > >> >>>> > >> And don't be gullible. >>>> > >> >>>> > >> As much as I love flowers, too. >>>> > >> >>>> > >> --Joe >>>> > >> >>>> > >>> "Glenn Rogers" <rgthiessen@> wrote: >>>> > >>> >>>> > >>> I saw a National Geographic program in which scientists hooked up >>>> > >>> ECG monitors to plant flowers. [snip] >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > > >>>> > >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > >
