Hi Merle, It's easy to say but difficult to do...
Being biological humans have natural visceral emotional responses to events. However this depends also on the mental understanding and in head narratives about such events, or even feared or anticipated events that haven't even happened. Example: Someone does something 'bad' to you and there is a natural biological response of hurt. But then you start brooding on it obsessively over and over and the mental narrative and the emotional suffering form a self perpetuating feedback loop that goes on and on. That's not Zen. The feedback loop is broken by changing the narrative which is what you have control over. The harmful event has vanished, so should the suffering vanish. The correct narrative is reality itself which has now changed and one should be interacting with what exists in the present moment rather than something which happened in the past and no longer exists. Nothing wrong with enjoying your garden. Just realize it could be destroyed at any moment and accept that possibility to avoid attachment. Not sure if this is clear or not but it's the key to avoiding attachment. Dealing with reality as it actually is rather than how you want it to be. Attachments always have to do with wishing reality was different than it actually is... Edgar On Aug 30, 2012, at 7:44 AM, Merle Lester wrote: > > > edgar..you are absolutely right..tell me how i can move past this > point...be my teacher please...merle > > > Merle, > > The problem with being happily mired in ignorance and being attached to all > the good things in your life is that you then are going to be equally > attached to any bad things that happen.... > > That's why Buddha spoke of the Middle Way and freeing oneself from ALL > attachments, both the pleasant and unpleasant ones... > > Edgar > > > > On Aug 29, 2012, at 10:31 PM, Merle Lester wrote: > >> >> >> illusions...huh? >> peck away edgar >> strip me bare >> free from my bondage from >> those golden daffodils and pixies that are calling me..".come hither..play >> with us" >> merle...dancing to the tune of "wild thing" >> >> >> >> Bill and Merle, >> >> I second that. Merle is a fighter and I don't think she'll leave just >> because Edgar pecks away at her illusions! >> >> She does have a thin skin sometimes but that of course is because she still >> has attachments as do we all >> :-) >> >> Edgar >> >> >> >> On Aug 28, 2012, at 9:23 PM, Bill! wrote: >> >>> >>> Speaking for Al, the forum owner, and both the moderators, Edgar and me, we >>> all hope you stay. We get a commission on each post and your membership >>> here has already moved up the date of my retirement by several weeks... >>> >>> ...Bill! >>> >>> --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@...> wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Â right..edgar..maybe this zen is not for me...why are you saying crazy >>> > new age fantasy? >>> > >>> > ...there are plenty of practises of a human kind that believe in nature >>> > and nature's spirits...communicating with nature. e.g australian >>> > aborigines >>> > .it is not new fangled dangled... >>> > Â merle. >>> > .worshipping and communicating with the sun this morning at 6:30am >>> > >>> > Â >>> > Merle, >>> > >>> > Reread paragraph 4 Merle. I said nothing of the sort... I was talking >>> > about incorrect facts, not the spiritual awe of reality. >>> > >>> > Do you understand the difference? You don't have to think the flower >>> > understands what you say to it to appreciate the flower. Zen is realizing >>> > and appreciating the TRUE nature of the flower, not some crazy New Age >>> > fantasy facts you project onto it. >>> > >>> > Edgar >>> > >>> > On Aug 28, 2012, at 8:47 AM, Merle Lester wrote: >>> > >>> > > thank you for your clarification edgar >>> > > >>> > > ..remind me never to see the poetry in the dancing daffodil or listen >>> > > to the music that the leaves on the trees sing. >>> > > ..remind me i must be ever vigilant unless i fall from grace and am >>> > > reduced to praise and awe and wonder at the beauty of mother nature >>> > > especially her most glorious of all...her sexual delights in the form >>> > > of flowers never again to listen to their glorious voices >>> > > >>> > > ..remind me that i must always remain ever scientific ever logical and >>> > > alert to childish silly fantasy games and illusions.. >>> > > never again must i listen to the wind and the grasses when they speak. >>> > > ..goodness me and oh jesus christ ..what would the red skin indian say >>> > > to your theories edgar? >>> > > >>> > > ...edgar save me from such silly ways >>> > > ..for life is not a bowl of cherries >>> > > it is hard real world made from solid rock..solid knowledge based on >>> > > facts and figures >>> > > ..and if one dare to fall and fall to such fancies as projecting a >>> > > human quality to a plant life and me daring to speak plant >>> > > language..strike me dumb >>> > > so i may never speak again of such unheard things.. >>> > > >>> > > ... merle..the wolf carrying a bright yellow daffodil as a peace >>> > > offering to those who know what sitting bull would have replied >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > Joe, >>> > > >>> > > Flowers do have 'senses' in the sense that they have receptors for and >>> > > respond to light, touch, chemical signals and possibly sound. They have >>> > > fairly complex internal electrical and chemical signaling systems.... >>> > > >>> > > What I doubt is Merle's contention that her plants listen to her and >>> > > respond to what she says.... There is no evolutionary reason they >>> > > should do so and no scientific evidence that they do.... >>> > > >>> > > I'd say Merle is projecting here which is a dangerous form of illusion >>> > > and the antithesis of Zen.... >>> > > >>> > > There is a subtle Zen point here. It's fine to have personal myths like >>> > > this so long as one realizes they are just fun fantasy, games and >>> > > illusion and NOT reality. Illusion recognized as illusion is reality, >>> > > illusion seen as reality is illusion.... >>> > > >>> > > One of the most dangerous illusions to Zen is the various 'New Age' >>> > > wishful thinking that falsely projects goody goody saccharin fake >>> > > sweetness on reality. It's like astrology, numerology, anti-scientific >>> > > religious delusions and the various forms of 'spiritualism' that all >>> > > attempt to project the delusions of mind onto reality. >>> > > >>> > > There is no realization so long as one is mired in these illusions... >>> > > >>> > > Edgar >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > On Aug 28, 2012, at 12:31 AM, Joe wrote: >>> > > >>> > > >>> > >> Glenn, >>> > >> >>> > >> With respect, I *doubt* these "instrumental revelations". >>> > >> >>> > >> I am a professional and an expert in Scientific Instrumentation, and I >>> > >> have nothing but doubts about these botanical "experiments" that are >>> > >> so often cited. I believe they are BS; and, if you have a while, I can >>> > >> show you exactly why. Well, it may not be easy to get together. >>> > >> >>> > >> But, keep a skeptical -- and an open -- mind, I suggest! >>> > >> >>> > >> And don't be gullible. >>> > >> >>> > >> As much as I love flowers, too. >>> > >> >>> > >> --Joe >>> > >> >>> > >>> "Glenn Rogers" <rgthiessen@> wrote: >>> > >>> >>> > >>> I saw a National Geographic program in which scientists hooked up ECG >>> > >>> monitors to plant flowers. [snip] >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > > >>> > >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > >
