Bill! Realty is what exists in the present moment. It includes Buddha Nature and everything including all the forms and any illusions that exist in the present moment by manifesting Buddha Nature. But the fundamental reality of all these forms is Buddha Nature only.
Illusions are the differences between an organism's simulation of reality in its mind and reality itself as it actually exists... PS: I actually agree with you that all that exists is experience, but that experience is not just in YOUR mind. That's the major disagreement I think I have with you. Correct me if I'm wrong. What you call 'Your' mind is a complex of forms IN experience as it becomes categorized into self and not self. Experience itself is raw and unmediated. Experience itself is reality. It consists of forms manifesting Buddha Nature. Many if not all of those forms are illusory. But they are reality when recognized as illusory. They are illusory only when taken as reality. All that exists is Xperience (I use this more general term because it applies equally well to all things, not just human minds). Even the most profound and complex intellectual theory ultimately exists only as experience, as the experience of its forms. All that exists is Xperience only. Reality is not at its most fundamental level a physical structure. It consists of Xperience, the Xperience of everything in the universe of everything else. Your Experience is just part of that overall structure... First is xperience, then it's categorized and analyzed and theorized, but ultimately it all remains xperience only, the xperience of those processes... Including my experience of thinking and writing this right now.. Thus it is clear that experience has a logical structure. And since xperience is the ultimate reality, that ultimate reality must also have a logical structure. Our basic disagreement as I see it is that recognizing this I embrace this logical structure of experience as a manifestation of the reality of Buddha Nature since, as we agree, experience is the ONLY reality, and it has a logical structure, while you throw up your hands and deny that part of experience is reality, and claim only the formless aspect of Buddha nature you experience while doing zazen is reality. As I say over and over, ALL of experience is reality, all of experience manifests Buddha Nature, not just the formless aspect of it. Edgar On Sep 7, 2012, at 4:36 AM, Bill! wrote: > Edgar, > > I've yet to see a set of succinct definitions of what you mean by 'reality' > and 'illusions'. How about taking the list I posted and tell us what your > definitions are? > > And try to keep the definitions to a couple sentences. > > ...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote: > > > > ED, > > > > I've been trying to do just that in almost every one of my posts since I've > > been here but apparently not well enough... > > :-( > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > On Sep 6, 2012, at 9:41 AM, ED wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edgar, > > > > > > What you mean by 'reality' is different from what Bill! means by > > > 'reality'. In a recent post, Bill! has stated in some detail the meaning > > > he attaches to the word 'reality. You may want to define what you mean by > > > 'reality'. Then, we may be able to see how and why you two are in > > > disagreement over 'reality'. > > > > > > --ED > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Bill! > > > > > > > > Whoh now Bill! It's YOU that is telling Merle TO run out on the street > > > > without looking because it is YOU than claims that reality has no > > > > logical structure and thus if Merle gets run over by a bus it's all in > > > > her mind as an illusion and not reality. > > > > > > > > It's ME that is telling Merle, and to the point you, NOT to run out on > > > > the street without looking because it's ME that is saying that buses > > > > are real and you can really get killed running out in front of one > > > > BECAUSE REALITY HAS A LOGICAL STRUCTURE AND FOLLOWS THE LAWS OF NATURE > > > > and that my friend is NOT an illusion... > > > > > > > > I do however agree with you, as I've often tried to point out, that > > > > each of us models the laws of nature somewhat differently in our > > > > respective minds. But because our mental models of reality are > > > > imperfect that DOES NOT MEAN that what they model, the laws of nature, > > > > do not exist.... > > > > > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > > > >
