Hopefully that was my last post on the subject. Like Al Pacino in the Godfather. I want to get out but keep being pulled back by the need to correct others misunderstandings.
That's an a attachment of mine I need to work on more :-) Edgar On Sep 8, 2012, at 12:03 AM, Bill! wrote: > Edgar, > > I thought you wanted to drop this thread. > > Did that mean you just wanted ME to drop the thread, or was that to apply to > you also?..Bill! > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote: >> >> Bill and Merle, >> >> If I must, my definition of art, as a long time art dealer among other >> things, is a work in which the form rather than the function is emphasized. >> >> From my site at http://EdgarLOwen.info >> >> ORIGINS: The concept of art is a human invention, therefore it is possible >> to define art in any way one chooses, just so long as the definition is >> useful and applied consistently. I offer a definition based in human >> perception that I believe useful and quite general. In my view, art has to >> do with the distinction of form and function. Art concentrates on the form >> of things, and details of form such as symmetry and balance that elicit >> experiences such as that of beauty. Beauty has traditionally been the >> experiential goal of art, but more recently this has been extended to other >> responses such as disgust, shock, and other emotions. Nevertheless what is >> constant in art is the concern with form as opposed to function. (I'm >> including color here since form is often rendered with color as in painting.) >> >> Now everything has form, so art can be seen wherever one looks, if one looks >> at the form rather than the thing itself. Eg. the beauty of a horse's form >> as it gallops, as opposed to it being a flesh and blood beast of burden. One >> could restrict the definition to a product of human creation, but I would >> rather just refer to that as 'human art'. We wish to avoid the problem of >> not seeing art in the creations of weaver or bower birds, or in the beauty >> of nature. After all, it is common usage to refer to beautiful form of >> whatever origin as art. >> >> So what is human art then? Human art is an object primarily created for its >> form, rather than any attendant function. A painting is pure form, that is >> its only function. So something that is divorced from function is art, since >> we must consider only its form. Therefore a toilet in an art gallery becomes >> art because we cannot pee in it. It is isolated from its function so that we >> are forced to consider only its form. Therefore art is form divorced from >> function, or an object whose primary function is to display its form. >> >> >> CRITIQUE: Now the question of what is 'good' art versus 'bad' art is another >> question entirely. I have my doubts about the toilet in the art gallery >> being 'good' art, nevertheless I can certainly admire the form of a >> beautiful toilet. Recall that the 'artist' who submitted the toilet to the >> gallery did not actually create its form, therefore he might be said to have >> pointed out its artistic merit, but certainly was not the actual artist who >> created it. On the other hand by placing the toilet in the gallery we are >> forced to confront its function in an abstract way, we are forced to >> consider the function, and all its attendant meaning to us, in a purely >> formal sense independent of any participation in that function. While this >> can be interesting and might in some cases have merit, I still find it >> rather unconvincing as art. Perhaps those who have strong issues with peeing >> may disagree? >> >> Picasso defined art as 'lies that tell the truth'. That's a pretty good >> definition, even though I don't consider Picasso much of an artist. >> >> Edgar >> >> >> >> >>> Merle and Edgar, >>> >>> Before I chuck it in for the night I thought I'd go to Merle's suggested >>> Source of all Truth - the dictionary. >>> >>> Here are the definitions of 'art' and 'engineering' copied from >>> Merriam-Webster Online. I trust you'll accept these definitions without >>> smearing them with labels of 'outlandish', 'emotional' or (heaven forbid) >>> 'illogical'. >>> >>> My [I-told-you-so-comments] are in brackets. >>> >>> Definition of ART [Please note the absence of any mention of 'logic', >>> 'structure' or 'purpose'] >>> 1 >>> : skill acquired by experience, study, or observation >>> 2 >>> a : a branch of learning: (1) : one of the humanities (2) plural: LIBERAL >>> ARTSb archaic : LEARNING, SCHOLARSHIP >>> 3 >>> : an occupation requiring knowledge or skill >>> 4 >>> a : the conscious use of skill and creative imagination especially in the >>> production of aesthetic objects; also : works so produced >>> >>> Definition of ENGINEERING [Please note the emphasis on 'science' and >>> 'mathematics' (which are based on 'logic' and assume 'structure'), and >>> 'purpose' ("...useful to people") >>> 1 >>> : the activities or function of an engineer >>> 2 >>> a : the application of science and mathematics by which the properties of >>> matter and the sources of energy in nature are made useful to people >>> >>> So, what's next? More 'third eye' suggestions? >>> >>> ...Bill! >>> >>> --- In [email protected], "Bill!" <BillSmart@> wrote: >>>> >>>> Merle, >>>> >>>> My remarks were not outlandish nor emotional or illogical. >>>> >>>> My remarks were my opinion based on my experience. >>>> >>>> What 'facts' do you think I should check? Should I have checked someone >>>> else's opinion before I expressed mine? >>>> >>>> ...Bill! >>>> >>>> --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> rubbish bill >>>>> .i would not say that to cezanne, mondrian kandinsky etc .,,just a few >>>>> artists. >>>>> ..check cubist theories might give you some insight >>>>> .please check facts before making outlandish one off remarks that are >>>>> highly emotional and totally illogical..merle >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Logic plays a big part in engineering, not art...Bill! >>>>> >>>>> --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Â bill..artists can be logical too... logic plays a big part in my >>>>>> art...merle >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! 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