Edgar, I thought you wanted to drop this thread.
Did that mean you just wanted ME to drop the thread, or was that to apply to you also?..Bill! --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote: > > Bill and Merle, > > If I must, my definition of art, as a long time art dealer among other > things, is a work in which the form rather than the function is emphasized. > > From my site at http://EdgarLOwen.info > > ORIGINS: The concept of art is a human invention, therefore it is possible to > define art in any way one chooses, just so long as the definition is useful > and applied consistently. I offer a definition based in human perception that > I believe useful and quite general. In my view, art has to do with the > distinction of form and function. Art concentrates on the form of things, and > details of form such as symmetry and balance that elicit experiences such as > that of beauty. Beauty has traditionally been the experiential goal of art, > but more recently this has been extended to other responses such as disgust, > shock, and other emotions. Nevertheless what is constant in art is the > concern with form as opposed to function. (I'm including color here since > form is often rendered with color as in painting.) > > Now everything has form, so art can be seen wherever one looks, if one looks > at the form rather than the thing itself. Eg. the beauty of a horse's form as > it gallops, as opposed to it being a flesh and blood beast of burden. One > could restrict the definition to a product of human creation, but I would > rather just refer to that as 'human art'. We wish to avoid the problem of not > seeing art in the creations of weaver or bower birds, or in the beauty of > nature. After all, it is common usage to refer to beautiful form of whatever > origin as art. > > So what is human art then? Human art is an object primarily created for its > form, rather than any attendant function. A painting is pure form, that is > its only function. So something that is divorced from function is art, since > we must consider only its form. Therefore a toilet in an art gallery becomes > art because we cannot pee in it. It is isolated from its function so that we > are forced to consider only its form. Therefore art is form divorced from > function, or an object whose primary function is to display its form. > > > CRITIQUE: Now the question of what is 'good' art versus 'bad' art is another > question entirely. I have my doubts about the toilet in the art gallery being > 'good' art, nevertheless I can certainly admire the form of a beautiful > toilet. Recall that the 'artist' who submitted the toilet to the gallery did > not actually create its form, therefore he might be said to have pointed out > its artistic merit, but certainly was not the actual artist who created it. > On the other hand by placing the toilet in the gallery we are forced to > confront its function in an abstract way, we are forced to consider the > function, and all its attendant meaning to us, in a purely formal sense > independent of any participation in that function. While this can be > interesting and might in some cases have merit, I still find it rather > unconvincing as art. Perhaps those who have strong issues with peeing may > disagree? > > Picasso defined art as 'lies that tell the truth'. That's a pretty good > definition, even though I don't consider Picasso much of an artist. > > Edgar > > > > > > Merle and Edgar, > > > > Before I chuck it in for the night I thought I'd go to Merle's suggested > > Source of all Truth - the dictionary. > > > > Here are the definitions of 'art' and 'engineering' copied from > > Merriam-Webster Online. I trust you'll accept these definitions without > > smearing them with labels of 'outlandish', 'emotional' or (heaven forbid) > > 'illogical'. > > > > My [I-told-you-so-comments] are in brackets. > > > > Definition of ART [Please note the absence of any mention of 'logic', > > 'structure' or 'purpose'] > > 1 > > : skill acquired by experience, study, or observation > > 2 > > a : a branch of learning: (1) : one of the humanities (2) plural: LIBERAL > > ARTSb archaic : LEARNING, SCHOLARSHIP > > 3 > > : an occupation requiring knowledge or skill > > 4 > > a : the conscious use of skill and creative imagination especially in the > > production of aesthetic objects; also : works so produced > > > > Definition of ENGINEERING [Please note the emphasis on 'science' and > > 'mathematics' (which are based on 'logic' and assume 'structure'), and > > 'purpose' ("...useful to people") > > 1 > > : the activities or function of an engineer > > 2 > > a : the application of science and mathematics by which the properties of > > matter and the sources of energy in nature are made useful to people > > > > So, what's next? More 'third eye' suggestions? > > > > ...Bill! > > > > --- In [email protected], "Bill!" <BillSmart@> wrote: > > > > > > Merle, > > > > > > My remarks were not outlandish nor emotional or illogical. > > > > > > My remarks were my opinion based on my experience. > > > > > > What 'facts' do you think I should check? Should I have checked someone > > > else's opinion before I expressed mine? > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rubbish bill > > > > .i would not say that to cezanne, mondrian kandinsky etc .,,just a few > > > > artists. > > > > ..check cubist theories might give you some insight > > > > .please check facts before making outlandish one off remarks that are > > > > highly emotional and totally illogical..merle > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Logic plays a big part in engineering, not art...Bill! > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Â bill..artists can be logical too... logic plays a big part in my > > > > > art...merle > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! 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