Kris, Thanks...if you at all interested you could check out Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mara_(demon) <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mara_(demon)> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_(illusion) <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_(illusion)>
...Bill! --- In [email protected], Kristopher Grey <kris@...> wrote: > > My albeit limited understanding has been Mara/Maya are different > spellings - which usually means different traditions/teaching (like > Dharma/Dhamma). Same, but teh spelling can clue you in on what > vehicle/branch the teaching comes from - and these will use the words > differently). I use them interchangeably (and not all that much) and I > use them in a very general/simple way, leaving each to their own > interpretation. If this is 'incorrect usage' then that may be a pointer > for someone too. I used to use Maya more, but is a more common name - so > I use Mara more lately. I tend to prefer simple English, and mostly use > such words when others do, as a sort of shorthand/shortcut (all fields > have their jargon), and for fun. > > Since you seem to like sliding on the slippery slope of re-branding try: > 'Personified Suchness'. Not catchy, and likely to draw a lot of flak, > but it does put the whole false identification business right up front - > followed by the obvious realization. *L* > > KG > > > On 9/13/2012 12:11 AM, Bill! wrote: > > > > Kris, Edgar and Mike, > > > > I disagree with most of what's said here but won't bore you with that > > again, at least right now. I just want to get that on the record. > > > > You are using a term of which I was not familiar: 'Mara'. I first > > thought it was 'Maya' and just spelled a little differently, but after > > researching this online I found 'Mara' is different from 'Maya'. Both > > are classed as 'illusions' (pardon the use of that term) but 'Mara' > > has a connotation of being 'unwholesome'. Examples I saw were > > 'cravings', 'boredom' and 'passion'. Whereas 'Maya' had no negative > > connotations. > > > > What is your understanding of and how are you using the term 'Mara' > > compared with 'Maya'? > > > > Thanks...Bill! > > > > --- In [email protected] <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>, > > Kristopher Grey kris@ wrote: > > > > > > Indeed, and well said. Many expressions here appear consistent (all, as > > > aspects of this), though I suppose it is simply more engaging to point > > > to those the the ones that appear otherwise! *L* > > > > > > KG > > > > > > > > > On 9/12/2012 6:35 AM, Edgar Owen wrote: > > > > > > > > Mike and Kris, > > > > > > > > > > > > This is consistent with what I say, that Mara (illusion or the world > > > > of forms) is the WAY THAT BUDDHA NATURE MANIFESTS IN OUR WORLD. > > > > Properly realized Mara is not something apart from Buddha Nature > > but a > > > > manifestation of Buddha Nature. Mara is only illusion when taken for > > > > the whole of reality rather than being realized as a manifestation of > > > > Buddha Nature itself. > > > > > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sep 11, 2012, at 8:28 PM, mike brown wrote: > > > > > > > >> > > > >> Kris, > > > >> > > > >> >What you seek to attend to, is none other than that attending. > > > >> Abiding as whatever presents. > > > >> > > > >> I agree. This is just another way of saying that consciousness > > arises > > > >> with whatever presents from moment to moment (conditioned). But it's > > > >> how we react, or not, to these moments that is the crux of > > whether we > > > >> suffer... or not. > > > >> > > > >> >There is no Buddha without Mara. > > > >> > > > >> Again, I agree. I think there's a very shallow belief in Buddhism, > > > >> including zen, that when someone becomes 'enlightened' they will > > > >> experience a life free of attachments, desires and craving. If > > > >> conditions are right, we can experience moments of liberation, > > but we > > > >> live in a contingent world and so always need to pay attention to > > > >> each and every moment. > > > >> > > > >> >All teachings of Buddha are carried and delivered by Mara. > > > >> > > > >> Nice. > > > >> > > > >> >The Middle Way cannot be entered without Mara's invitation. Be > > > >> mindful you don't reject it. > > > >> > > > >> Well, you know what they say about keeping your friends close to > > you, > > > >> but your enemies closer ; ) > > > >> > > > >> Mike > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > >> *From:* Kristopher Grey kris@ <mailto:kris@> > > > >> *To:* [email protected] > > <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:[email protected] > > <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>> > > > >> *Sent:* Monday, 10 September 2012, 2:55 > > > >> *Subject:* Re: [Zen] Re: THE BASIC TEACHING OF BUDDHA > > > >> > > > >> On 9/9/2012 3:34 PM, mike brown wrote: > > > >>> Kris, > > > >>> > > > >>> >The nature of this realized, cessation is effortless. > > > >>> > > > >>> We're contingent beings in a contingent world. We're born, we grow > > > >>> sick, we grow old, we die. In a contingent world we don't know > > > >>> what's just around the corner ready to befall us. In order to > > > >>> "realise" suffering fully we need to pay mindful attention to what > > > >>> impacts on us - not to just the external stimuli, but also to > > how we > > > >>> react to them inwardly. > > > >> > > > >> While all this is so, these are not separate. 'No independent > > > >> origination". Contingent. What you seek to attend to, is none other > > > >> than that attending. Abiding as whatever presents. > > > >> > > > >> Abiding is not optional. Delusions of not abiding take great effort > > > >> to maintain (Abiding is not optional. Delusions of not abiding take > > > >> great effort to maintain [Abiding is not optional. Delusions of not > > > >> abiding take great effort to maintain.].)... > > > >> > > > >> If you realize at least 1/3 of that last bit - your mindfulness is > > > >> sufficient. ;) > > > >> > > > >>> Even after Buddha's defeat of Mara, he was still 'visited' by Mara > > > >>> from time to time. life happens moment to moment and no over-riding > > > >>> state of mind/knowledge/understanding/Enlightenment will eradicate > > > >>> the potential to suffer at any time. All we can do is constantly > > > >>> practice mindfulness until our mind isn't so restless and we can be > > > >>> more aware of those first stirrings of the mind to be so reactive. > > > >> > > > >> There is no Buddha without Mara. Neither victor nor vanquished was > > > >> born to fight nor dies in the struggle. To conquer delusion is > > see it > > > >> was never otherwise. Samsara is Nirvana. No other realization/no > > > >> realization of other. > > > >> > > > >> All teachings of Buddha are carried and delivered by Mara. > > > >> > > > >> The Middle Way cannot be entered without Mara's invitation. Be > > > >> mindful you don't reject it. > > > >> > > > >> KG > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
