anthony..you think about it...monks/ nuns/ priests are only human...or no sex drive...we have cases here in australia of Catholic priests being found out only now of abusing young boys...merle
Merle, I don't understand you. DO you think monks, nun...do sex? Anthony From: Merle Lester <[email protected]> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, 14 September 2012, 12:18 Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: THE BASIC TEACHING OF BUDDHA what are you talking about anthony?...did i suggest in a monastery?.. .. but you can bet many do... all that holding back..."bullshit"...it all goes underground..monks nuns priests gurus don't do sex..i don't think so .sure it might be off topic.. .. but honestly anthony..diverting the sex drive to something more elated.. .jesus...that's a surprise considering the world is at breaking point in population.. .why oh why is this not general knowledge?. ..merle Merle, Many do what they are not supposed to do. This is a bit off topic. Our point here is whether we are able to divert the strong sex drive to something more elated. Maybe a small minority can do it, whereas others will use it as an excuse to engage in something else. The 'sex yoga' is always controversial. I am not opposed to sexuality. But don't do it in a monastry please. Anthony From: Merle Lester <[email protected]> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, 14 September 2012, 8:28 Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: THE BASIC TEACHING OF BUDDHA because he is not suppose too,,,, and he might have a very low sex drive..so he's bloody lucky...but they say if you do not use it you loose it...it can be a bloody problem..as who the hell would he have it with?...think about it anthony. sex is habitual... and once on a good thing one generally wants more...merle Edgar/Merle, How do you know Dalai Lama never had sex? He was answering a questionn regarding some Tibetan monks conducting 'sex yoga' and said that if you have sex without enjoying it, but it serves a more 'elated' purpose, you can justify doing it. That is why he devised that 'qualification test'. I am too lazy to search the web, but if sombody spends time doing it, it should be able for the message to be found. I don't think that is part of the Chinese propaganda, though you can find a lot of it otherwise. Anthony From: Merle Lester <[email protected]> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, 14 September 2012, 7:48 Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: THE BASIC TEACHING OF BUDDHA ridiculous...the dalai lama never has sex... so what would he know ?..and if he is having sex with himself as edgar describes... this is plain silly...he can drink the urine if he wishes..it's his choice...... but to impose a rule as a must... smacks of fundamentalist crap..merle Anthony, I don't know where you get this garbage Antony? Edgar On Sep 13, 2012, at 6:21 PM, Anthony Wu wrote: > Edgar, > > Dalai Lama says, if you are faced with two glasses, one containing wine, the > other urine, you must drink both without hesitation, in order to qualify for > the sex yoga you describe. Right? > > Anthony > > > ________________________________ > From: Edgar Owen <mailto:edgarowen%40att.net> > To: mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, 13 September 2012, 8:30 > Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: THE BASIC TEACHING OF BUDDHA > > > > Hi Anthony, > > Sure, it's possible I do it all the time... > > Edgar > > > > > On Sep 12, 2012, at 5:59 PM, Anthony Wu wrote: > > >> >> >> Edgar, >> >> You say, ' Remember Tantra, and some Taoist schools, use this attachment to >> generate intensity of chi in the sexual chakras, but then instead of >> releasing it in orgasm, directs it up through the other chakras flooding the >> whole body to invigorate the whole being and fill it with pure objectLESS >> love. In this way the whole being glows with chi in the form of pure >> unmediated love and radiates Buddha Nature back out into the universe...' >> >> Is it really possible? Or just an excuse for the pleasue of actual organism, >> no matter if the body is invigorated with love or not? >> >> Anthony >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: Chris Austin-Lane <mailto:chris%40austin-lane.net> >> To: mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com >> Sent: Wednesday, 12 September 2012, 22:19 >> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: THE BASIC TEACHING OF BUDDHA >> >> >> >> >> On Sep 12, 2012 5:06 AM, "Edgar Owen" <mailto:edgarowen%40att.net> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi Mike, >>> >>> I rarely use most of the old words >>> from the texts since I find many of >>> them confused and overlapping. >> The very nature of words. >> But fresh language that captures the freshness of the current moment is >> always welcome. >> >> >>> >>> As for the high heels clicking towards you on the sidewalk. Enjoy but don't >>> get too attached! Recognize that as one of the BIGGEST attachments men >>> especially have to deal with. Just realize it's true nature, a biological >>> trick evolution plays on men to perpetuate the species no matter at what >>> cost! >>> >>> Remember Tantra, and some Taoist schools, use this attachment to generate >>> intensity of chi in the sexual chakras, but then instead of releasing it in >>> orgasm, directs it up through the other chakras flooding the whole body to >>> invigorate the whole being and fill it with pure objectLESS love. In this >>> way the whole being glows with chi in the form of pure unmediated love and >>> radiates Buddha Nature back out into the universe... >>> >>> This is the golden glow often depicted radiating around Buddha... >>> >>> Edgar >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sep 12, 2012, at 7:44 AM, mike brown wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Edgar, >>>> >>>> I think you see Mara somewhat differently to how I see it. You seem to see >>>> Mara as the illusion of forms, but understanding them as illusion is still >>>> reality and not apart of the All which is Buddha Nature. Fair enough, but >>>> i think this is more of a Mahayana understanding of Mara. I see Mara as >>>> originally understood - the temptation of the senses that leads us to >>>> suffering. I can see the overlaps tho, so I'm not disagreeing with you. >>>> I'm sure we both see the world as contin gent and consciousness arises >>>> differently depending on what condition presents. For example, If I hear >>>> the sound of high heels coming towards me, my mind begins formulating the idea of 'female' and 'beauty' 'desire' etc. My body follows along and so my heart beat increases, adrenalin is released along with some serotonin etc etc. I then build a story/mental formation onto this and might start imagining meeting this woman (still unseen!) and... well, you know the rest. All from the > sound of shoes!! This is the meaning of Mara to me - a tempting of the senses > that leads us into suffering (self-inflicted!) and can occur from moment to > moment as new conditions present. I guess I'm operating from the micro while > you're doing so from the macro. But then again, it never hurts to see the > bigger picture. >>>> >>>> Mike >>>> >>>> ________________________________ >>>> From: Edgar Owen <mailto:edgarowen%40att.net> >>>> To: mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com >>>> Sent: Wednesday, 12 September 2012, 11:35 >>>> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: THE BASIC TEACHING OF BUDDHA >>>> >>>> >>>> Mike and Kris, >>>> >>>> This is consistent with what I say, that Mara (illusion or the world of >>>> forms) is the WAY THAT BUDDHA NATURE MANIFESTS IN OUR WORLD. Properly >>>> realized Mara is not something apart from Buddha Nature but a >>>> manifestation of Buddha Nature. Mara is only illusion when taken for the >>>> whole of reality rather than being realized as a manifestation of Buddha >>>> Nature itself. >>>> >>>> Edgar >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sep 11, 2012, at 8:28 PM, mike brown wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Kris, >>>>> >>>>>> What you seek to attend to, is none other than that attending. Abiding >>>>>> as whatever presents. >>>>> >>>>> I agree. This is just another way of saying that consciousness arises >>>>> with whatever presents from moment to moment (conditioned). But it's how >>>>> we react, or not, to these moments that is the crux of whether we >>>>> suffer... or not. >>>>> >>>>>> There is no Buddha without Mara. >>>>> >>>>> Again, I agree. I think there's a very shallow belief in Buddhism, >>>>> including zen, that when someone becomes 'enlightened' they will >>>>> experience a life free of attachments, desires and craving. If conditions >>>>> are right, we can experience moments of liberation, but we live in a contingent world and so always need to pay attention to each and every moment. >>>>> >>>>>> All teachings of Buddha are carried and delivered by Mara. >>>>> >>>>> Nice. >>>>> >>>>>> The Middle Way cannot be entered without Mara's invitation. Be mindful >>>>>> you don't reject it. >>>>> >>>>> Well, you know what they say about keeping your friends close to you, but >>>>> your enemies closer ; ) >>>>> >>>>> Mike >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ________________________________ >>>>> From: Kristopher Grey <mailto:kris%40kgrey.com> >>>>> To: mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com >>>>> Sent: Monday, 10 September 2012, 2:55 >>>>> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: THE BASIC TEACHING OF BUDDHA >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 9/9/2012 3:34 PM, mike brown wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Kris, >>>>>> >>>>>>> The nature of this realized, cessation is effortless. >>>>>> >>>>>> We're contingent beings in a contingent world. We're born, we grow sick, >>>>>> we grow old, we die. In a contingent world we don't know what's just >>>>>> around the corner ready to befall us. In order to "realise" suffering >>>>>> fully we need to pay mindful attention to what impacts on us - not to >>>>>> just the external stimuli, but also to how we react to them inwardly. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> While all this is so, these are not separate. 'No independent >>>>> origination". Contingent. What you seek to attend to, is none other than >>>>> that attending. Abiding as whatever presents. >>>>> >>>>> Abiding is not optional. Delusions of not abiding take great effort to >>>>> maintain (Abiding is not optional. Delusions of not abiding take great >>>>> effort to maintain [Abiding is not optional. Delusions of not abiding >>>>> take great effort to maintain.].)... >>>>> >>>>> If you realize at least 1/3 of that last bit - your mindfulness is >>>>> sufficient. ;) >>>>> >>>>>> Even after Buddha's defeat of Mara, he was still 'visited' by Mara from >>>>>> time to time. life happens moment to moment and no over-riding state of mind/knowledge/understanding/Enlightenment will eradicate the potential to suffer at any time. All we can do is constantly practice mindfulness until our mind isn't so restless and we can be more aware of those first stirrings of the mind to be so reactive. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> There is no Buddha without Mara. Neither victor nor vanquished was born >>>>> to fight nor dies in the struggle. To conquer delusion is see it was >>>>> never otherwise. Samsara is Nirvana. No other realization/no realization >>>>> of other. >>>>> >>>>> All teachings of Buddha are carried and delivered by Mara. >>>>> >>>>> The Middle Way cannot be entered without Mara's invitation. Be mindful >>>>> you don't reject it. >>>>> >>>>> KG >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >
