KG..whether you agree or not..that is the state of the world..man sees himself
superior to nature... NOW.
..there are some who walk amongst us that do not..a rarer breed...
witness the destruction of nature as we speak
you'll have to give edgar some brownie points
he's seen it/ witnessed it
where are you hiding?
under a rock?
merle
Perhaps Edgar is just conditioned more 'Old Testament' than 'New Testament'. ;)
Either way, this business of Man vs Nature sounds like a Sunday
School lesson on our 'special' role/responsibility - of dominion
over the creatures of Earth. We are 'in His image' - not them
(which points to something far more profound/simple than the
literal/superficial interpretation most imagine).
Responsibility for one's actions is fine. Working together, fine.
These recognize fundamental interdependence and impermanence of it
all. Arrogant assumptions that Man stands somehow apart from the
rest is BS used to justify all sorts of positions. One of them,
being the belief that man stands apart.
I'm not saying the idea isn't useful. I'm warning that it IS, and
that this is precisely what we see playing out!
KG
PS - Intention (karmic desire for change) begets expectation
(suffering over this). If the road to hell is paved with GOOD
intentions, the path to total annihilation demands only the BEST
intentions. If we are busy with all this, what we humans
'interfere' with is realizing effortlessly arising compassion.
Always available when we stop deluding ourselves. Realizing this,
change flows accordingly.
On 10/10/2012 6:20 AM, Bill! wrote:
>Edgar,
>
>What's REALLY important is that it's been framed wrong.
It's been framed as humans vs. nature, or as you put it
humans 'interfering' in nature. As long as humans think
they are not part of nature and taht all their action are
natural there will be this problem.
>
>When a beaver builds a dam is that interfering with
nature? When a squirrel shits in the woods is that
interfering with nature? When a human splits an atom is
that interfering with nature? When a human manipulates DNA
is that interfering with nature?
>
>What is the quality that humans have that other animals
don't have that renders them capable of interference -
IYO? (I just made that up, IYO = 'in your opinion')
>
>...Bill!
>
>--- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote:
>>
>> Come on Bill.
>>
>> In human discourse about Man's impact on nature,
that's the way it's defined, and the whole issue is
framed, as you well know...
>>
>> Edgar
>>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 9, 2012, at 8:45 PM, Bill! wrote:
>>
>> > Edgar,
>> >
>> > This was a VERY SERIOUS response.
>> >
>> > Why is it that you think the things that humans
do are 'unnatural' or against nature but the things that
other life does is 'natural' and okay? A friend of mine
very wisely (IMO)once suggested that all ethics should be
applied to humans and other life forms equally.
>> >
>> > What is the quality that you believe separates
humans from the rest of nature so that human activities
and artifacts can be labeled as 'interference'?
>> >
>> > ...Bill!
>> >
>> > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Joe,
>> > >
>> > > Come on, it's a serious issue...
>> > >
>> > > Edgar
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Oct 9, 2012, at 11:26 AM, Joe wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > Edgar,
>> > > >
>> > > > And Humans are just the tip of the
iceberg, too.
>> > > >
>> > > > I don't know why plants and animals
insist on interfering with the way Nature works.
>> > > >
>> > > > For example, on the early earth there
was a nice atmosphere without oxygen. But blasted
Cyanobacteria evolved which like to sip the methane and
other gases there were back then, and started polluting
the atmosphere with ...Oxygen!
>> > > >
>> > > > Then -- wouldn't you know -- other
organisms formed which turned CO2 into even MORE Oxygen,
with a help from light from the Sun. The nerve! They got
away with it, though, because there were no Police. The
rug was pulled out from under Nature yet again!
>> > > >
>> > > > Later, some animals evolved, which USE
the oxygen.
>> > > >
>> > > > Much later, some of these animals of
the Mammal variety called "Beavers" began to INSIST that
they interfere with the stately FLOW of river tributaries
and streams, by ...damming them up! Such nerve. You may be
sure that this caused inundations upstream, and occasional
floods downstream when the dams burst. Havoc. Bye, bye,
Nature!
>> > > >
>> > > > The nerve of these organisms:
Micro-organisms, Plants, and Animals. Always interfering
with the way Nature works!
>> > > >
>> > > > At least on the Moon there is no such
interference, there's just a continual, thin, rain of
meteorites pummeling the surface, and no atmosphere to
make things rust.
>> > > >
>> > > > Oops!, some exotic Mammals left some
footprints on the Moon, and some machinery, during the
last fifty years. WHY must there always be such
interference? The Moon had been Nature's nice, quiet,
haven for rock and dust for so long. Why must things
always go downhill?
>> > > >
>> > > > --Joe
>> > > >
>> > > > > On 10/7/2012 9:26 PM, Edgar Owen
wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > > > Why do humans always insist
on interfering with the way nature works?
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
