Merle, I'm trying to persuade you to think your thinking cap off...Bill!
--- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@...> wrote: > > > >  >  bill!..i have my thinking cap on...... be patient...merle >  > Merle, > > I was thinking of 'pulling an Edgar' and feigning network connectivity > problems... ;>) ...but instead I'll do as I usually do and that is to > completely and directly address your questions. > > First of all my post below was directed to Edgar not you so I do not feel an > obligation to explain my terms to you - but I will... > > INTELLECT - is what I call 'discriminating mind'. It is our mind that is > rational and logical. It is the source of all illusion and can obscures > Buddha Nature. > > DIRECT REALIZATION - this was not my term but Edgar's. Ask him your WHERE > FROM questions. > > MIND - This term when I use it refers to the INTELLECT (see above). Some Zen > texts use the terms 'Big Mind' and 'Little Mind' to differentiate between > Buddha Nature and Intellect. Some Zen texts also use the term Buddha Mind > which is equivalent to my use of Buddha Nature, and is distinguished from > just 'mind' which is Intellect. > > REALITY - is sensual experience, also called Buddha Nature. When discussed > dualistically as we are now it distinguished from illusions which are > products of the Intellect. > > ...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > > àmay i interrupt..you will need to define what "intellect" is first > > bill.... > > àmaybe you are assuming something that it is not! > > definitions please! > > àand then bill > > àyou are saying "direct realisation" > > àwhere from ? > > àyour mind? > > àwhat is "mind"? > > àdefinition please bill~! > > àif you sort out the definitions > > àincluding the definition for "reality" > > àyou and edgar might suddenly realise through your mind > > àyou are both on the same wave length after all! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~would > > that not be just so beautiful?? ~~~~~~~~~~~ > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > àmerleà> > > > > > à> > Edgar, > > > > I agree wholeheartedly with the last sentence in your previous post. > > > > It's the preceding key statement that I've always rejected: "Intellectual > > understanding is the koan you need to solve BEFORE you can directly > > experience realization." There are times I put this down to > > misunderstanding because of different terminology - and the way you've > > phrased the statement above is another one of these times. What you've > > stated MIGHT by agreeable with me, but then again it might not. It all > > depends on what you mean. I've gone down this path with you before, but > > when trying to explore just what you think the role of intellect has in > > realizing Buddha Nature (like with my recent 'Repeating Daily Question') > > you've either answered it in a way that confirms my disagreement or refused > > to respond. > > > > Rather than continuing to beat a dead horse I will, as usual, tell you > > EXACTLY what my position is: > > > > Intellect has absolutely NO ROLE in realizing Buddha Nature. In fact > > intellect can act as a DETERRENT to realizing Buddha Nature. Our > > intellect is the source of all illusion which OCCLUDES Buddha Nature and > > and must be halted/paused/deferred BEFORE Buddha Nature can be realized. > > > > Now, if this halting/pausing/deferring is what you mean by 'solving the > > koan of the intellect' we do have a broad basis of agreement. > > > > If this is not what you mean by that, please tell me what you do mean. > > > > ...Bill! > > > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > > > > > > No, you just never understood what I've been saying consistently.. > > > > > > Intellectual understanding is the koan you need to solve BEFORE you can > > > directly experience realization. It is necessary to prepare yourself for > > > a correct realization... > > > > > > Intellectual understanding is NOT realization in itself... > > > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 24, 2012, at 8:10 AM, Bill! wrote: > > > > > > > Edgar, > > > > > > > > You say this all the time. The last time was saying something like 'you > > > > must understand the difference between reality and illusion'. That's > > > > what prompted my 'Daily Question' which you declined to answer. > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > > > > > Funny, accusing Merle of supporting something I never said and don't > > > > > believe.... > > > > > > > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 24, 2012, at 3:16 AM, Bill! wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Merle, > > > > > > > > > > > > I believed you did not know this because of your MANY posts > > > > > > recently supporting Edgar's continual assertions that UNDERSTANDING > > > > > > is necessary for realizing Buddha Nature. > > > > > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ãâ but of course BILL.... what makes you believe i did not > > > > > > > know this?...merle > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ãâ > > > > > > > Merle, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because Buddha Nature is not something you understand, it's > > > > > > > something you experience...Bill! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâ why not ?..merle > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâ > > > > > > > > Merle, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. That's why I wrote it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Huxley's 'Attention! Attention! Here and Now Boys! Here and Now > > > > > > > > Boys!' is the same thing as Joshu's 'The Oak Tree in the > > > > > > > > Garden' and 'Mu'', Unmon's 'Dried Shit-Stick' Tozan's 'Three > > > > > > > > Pounds of Flax' and my 'Just THIS!'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Understand? (...and you better not answer 'YES!!!!') > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâ and is that not what > > > > > > > > > the repeat as the mantra in the island novel?...merle > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâ > > > > > > > > > Merle, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or, if you prefer, "Attention! Attention! Here and Now Boy! > > > > > > > > > Here and Now!" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Joe" <desert_woodworker@> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Merle, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The latter, I think. I imagine it was fashioned in the form > > > > > > > > > > of a flat blade, like a palette-knife, or putty knife, > > > > > > > > > > probably from a broad thin piece of architectural bamboo. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It must have been a common enough accessory in use at the > > > > > > > > > > Ch'an monasteries, some of which housed hundreds of monks > > > > > > > > > > or nuns, and the latrines must have been extensive. And so > > > > > > > > > > the Master made use of the stick as an example, in his > > > > > > > > > > teaching. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Others might have answered, "The Oak Tree in the court > > > > > > > > > > yard" (but at some of the monasteries on high mountains, > > > > > > > > > > Oaks did not grow, but mostly Pines did/do). Bamboo could > > > > > > > > > > be brought up from below, for building, and for implements. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Still others might have answered, "Just THIS!". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Master was very compassionate, bringing the student > > > > > > > > > > back into the "here and now" with what he said and how he > > > > > > > > > > said it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --Joe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > huh??????? wiping what.... the toilet or the arse?.. > > > > > > > > > > > so it's an arse wiping stick? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! 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