Merle, You and Edgar are like two peas in a pod...always assuming people think something they probably don't and certainly didn't say.
Who on this group said you were a zen teacher? Only Edgar and you as far as I can remember. Who on this group implied they did not believe you were a zen teacher? NO ONE to my knowledge. I read the Zen Forum "...with my eyes wide open, my ears pricked and alert...". When I shop, I shop. ...Bill! --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@...> wrote: > > > > Â bill..i shop with my eyes wide open, my ears pricked and alert.. > > you'd betold surprised at the amazing conversations i have had with total > strangers who suddenly for no reason eagerly tell me their life stories..and > i point them to zen! > > Â i am a teacher after all which all of you in the group deny to me > > merle > > Â merle > Â > Merle, > > When I go to the shopping mall I shop. What do you do? > > ...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > edgar. > > > > .i can understand what you are saying...and that is how i see it except i > > cannot explain it like you have.. > > > > .zen to me is being in the moment alert and forever present...as i see it > > we zen through the day.. > > > > .practising zen to me is not sitting cross legged on "handwoven mats, > > ÃÂ eyes shut tight, sniffing incense and ÃÂ listening to gongs." > > > > .it's being out there in the real world every minute alert breathing the > > breath..."zenning the zen"..so to speak.. > > > > . as as for those folk on those forum who are going to clap their hands and > > shout "horror horror where the hell is she at"? let me remind them.. > > > > .it's not me who's struggling with zen understanding > > > > ÃÂ it's those hundreds of folk who we see everyday walking and talking as > > if in a shadowland( plato's cave).....ÃÂ > > > > next time you go to the shopping mall pay close attention and you'll very > > soon understand > > > > merle > > > > ÃÂ > > Edgar, > > > > It's good to see you back and well. Unfortunately I can't say the same > > about your theories. > > > > > > "It's an updated understanding of how mind works that was unknown when the > > Zen texts were written."ÃÂ > > > > > > Are you saying that prior to this 'breakthru' in neuroscience the > > Patriarchs weren't practicing 'real' Zen, but that you now are? Is this > > discovery definitive or could there be further "updates" which would render > > the Zen you practice now obsolete? Are you in fact practicing Zen or > > somethingÃÂ different entirely? > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Monday, 29 October 2012, 22:34 > > Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Is buddha nature coninuous? > > > > > > ÃÂ > > Joe, > > > > I think you have a mistaken interpretation of what 'mind moving' actually > > means... > > > > Mind is a computational system that continually computes sensations, > > actions etc. Thus mind continually moves. There is no escaping that so long > > as you are alive. In fact measurements show that mind is almost as active > > during sleep as when awake. > > > > So mind always moves in that sense. Everything you do you do it precisely > > because your mind is moving. > > > > What Zen means by mind not moving is different. It means that mind moves in > > sync with reality, not in opposition to it. This 'Zen is mind not moving' > > platitude was written centuries ago when the computational dynamics of mind > > were not understood. It refers to a state when you don't consciously think > > you are deciding to take particular actions but actions seem to flow > > spontaneously from an unconscious inner source. However it is now known > > that is always happening anyway. The conscious mind actually very rarely > > makes any decisions at all even though it thinks it does. That's the > > illusion. The source of almost all decisions and actions is always the > > unconscious inner computational system. > > > > It's an updated understanding of how mind works that was unknown when the > > Zen texts were written. > > > > So Zen is 24/7, whether your mind is moving or not. If there is realization > > that is. Zen is a matter of realizing what is actually happening, not > > getting rid of all thoughts which is of course impossible if you want to > > function in reality and survive through the day... > > > > True mindlessness = lobotomy or more accurately being dead! > > > > > > If you want a reference even Suzuki Roshi agreed with this when I put it to > > him... > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 29, 2012, at 4:30 PM, Joe wrote: > > > > ÃÂ > > >Edgar, > > > > > >Ha, ha. > > > > > >Yeah, I don't get what motivates your comment. > > > > > >Let's see if, no matter what mind you are in now, you can follow a logical > > >exposition: > > > > > >The Zen adept Sumie ink artists who paint big black circles on rice paper > > >do so with a mind that does not move: I mean, they do it with NO mind (and > > >hence, no mind-motion). > > > > > >I remember our Shif-fu, on retreats, teaching us how to come OUT of > > >meditation. He'd say, "MOVE YOUR MIND, first, then move your BODY, VERY > > >SLOWLY, and sway your body in ever-widening circles from the waist, first > > >in direction, then in the other". > > > > > >That always seemed like un-necessary advice to me, before certain > > >developments on retreat... > > > > > >...After which, I found that it was impossible to move the mind, and the > > >body could nonetheless move. > > > > > >But the months of life afterwards with the mind not moving at all was a > > >continuing marvel and surprise. And yet, life was certainly possible, and > > >richer than ever before. "Decisions" and actions were the best I have > > >ever done. > > > > > >And, Edgar, I found I could not only write, but I could type. > > > > > >I had to type. > > > > > >I needed to type because my job was to control an advanced radio-telescope > > >from a Tektronix terminal at the top of Pupin Hall, 120th Street and > > >Broadway. I discovered in these months giant filaments of cold molecular > > >gas, constrained and confined by magnetic fields, in the Milky Way pouring > > >from high above the galactic plane in the Orion-Arm, and down onto the > > >galactic disk, where the supersonic impact from the flow stimulated the > > >formation of stars in objects like Monoceros R2, and the Rosette Nebula. > > >The Great Nebula M42 in Orion is part of this complex. > > > > > >Decades more of practice and many more retreats and more awakenings showed > > >the same nature and character of our empty, still, awakened state, in the > > >midst of no-matter-what activity. No thoughts: nothing moving. Life is a > > >continuous intuition: the only mind is the mind we all share, which is no > > >mind. > > > > > >I can say that the currents in the mind, or head, and the feeling or > > >sensation that there are thoughts, or ANYTHING moving at all, is an > > >illusion that pertains to the un-awakened state, and to that state only. > > >These things are illusions and delusions, but the awakened state does not > > >deprecate them: they are simply not present in the awakened state, > > >however; not present at all. > > > > > >Surely, in the un-awakened state, there is the sense of something moving, > > >and of something that takes TIME to pass before the awareness. This > > >appears to indicate that free action of the mind is dammed-up, or > > >necked-down, in the un-awakened state, into a bottle-neck situation, which > > >is just what we might also expect. > > > > > >NOT in the awakened state. Nothing takes time. > > > > > >Prajna is likened to LIGHTNING, for this reason, BTW. > > > > > >See the Dorje lightning-bolt images at Tibetan places? > > > > > >Prajna is entirely spontaneous and can not be mulled-over nor formulated. > > > > > >Compassion arises simultaneously with Prajna. Compassion is not something > > >that you FEEL, in the awakened state, you simply respond naturally. > > > > > >And so it is. > > > > > >--Joe > > > > > >> Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > > >> > > >> Joe, > > >> > > >> Well obviously your mind was moving when you wrote this... The mind has > > >> to move to write... > > >> > > >> THAT's the experience... > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! 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