Thanks, --Chris [email protected] +1-301-270-6524
On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 10:17 AM, R A Fonda <[email protected]> wrote: > > > On 12/12/2012 12:33 PM, Chris Austin-Lane wrote: > > Is this the system you think would be better than our tax based system? >> >> >> You seem to be under the misapprehension that because I foresee >> something I must 'want' all aspects of it. >> >> > You wrote of some better system than democracy: > > > IS democracy *really* better than all the alternatives? I submit that > it is not > > I took your email to mean that you preferred the foreseen anarchy system > following the collapse was a sample alternative. So if not anarchy, then > what system is better than democracy? > > > We are getting some conflation and confusion here. I don't think democracy > is the best system, and I made it clear why: because it inevitably segues > into communism, which is a proven disaster. I said I thought that a > representative republic, as exemplified by the original US constitution, > was about as good as any government I know of, but I also said I don't > think there is ANY government that will suffice to maintain personal > freedom, social order, and a free/productive economy in an overpopulated > world or individual state for that matter. I said I prefer anarchy > (maximizing personal freedom) but conceded that it was not going to happen > in an overcrowded, technological society. I did not say that I *wanted*all > aspects of the defacto condition of anarchy which will prevail in the > post-collapse world, but simply that it would *be* the condition, and > that it has *been *the human condition except since agriculture. Before > one dismisses such a state as "nasty and brutish" it should be considered > that humans evolved from apes under those conditions, and that we are > DEvolving under the current order, which can't be maintained *any*way, > though I have no doubt that people will try to do so at any cost ... the > results of which will be both ghastly and futile.. > So the US of 1792 or changed relatively continuously, according to the initial rules, into the current US, so it can't be any better as a system than what we have now, right? It was a republic that allowed women to vote, abolished slavery, welcomed wave after wave of ethnic immigration, regulated fire safety for factory workers, food safety inspectors, regulated air pollution emissions, etc. etc. I just don't understand what you mean by your words. I'm sorry. Also, just for the record, devolving is not a scientific term - evolution posits that the organisms adapt to whatever environment they are reproducing in - there's no "teleology" - no better or worse, it's just the mechanism of life. As I recently read (here?), while Hawkins would not have lived back NNN years ago, his utility to our species is pretty high, so the fact that he reproduced is not really a bad thing. Also, it is starting to turn out that genes aren't as simple as it first appeared - they really are more of a platform for organisms, a computing engine that can respond to the environment and life of the organism in complex (and not yet known) ways. Genes turn on and off. I am still a bit saddened at your expectations of anarchy, but I hope the preparations give you joy. I'll stick with more hopeful Sci-Fi for my thoughts of the future. > A comment on disasters in California - the earthquakes are less fuss > than the hurricanes I got on the east coast of the US - you just prep and > then hopefully it will turn out ok, but there's no advance warning. No > "tropical depression forming off of the blah blah islands." No unneeded > evacuations. > > > You probably realize that is not the kind of 'disaster' I have in mind, > though natural disasters may be the stressors that precipitate social > breakdown. > Well, I'd probably disagree with you as to California - from my perspective, the people that think we could somehow have no taxes lost rather heavily in the last election; my kids class sizes (and the class sizes of the people that will probably care for me in the latter bits of my life) will decrease, thereby increasing the teacher effectiveness. We have a majority-minority state, and it brings with it the ability to live normally and yet be enriched with the perspectives of people from all over this globe, stimulating my mind no end. We as a group are buying and voting for electric cars, windmills, water conservation, bicycling, and organic foods. In my thoughts, it is a preview of living in the US in a few decades. > > > > The fact that supposedly 'awakened beings' can't apprehend the inevitable > results of current trends and policy (indeed, argue for hair-of-the-dog > cures) falsifies their pretensions to enlightenment. > >> > Not sure if you are referring to me here, > > > No, and it is to your credit that you make no such claims. In spite of > your occasional hostility, I respect your unpretentious efforts. > I told some co-workers about the $50 and they uniformly agreed it was harsh, so my contrition was renewed. > > you see your kids ice cream falling from the cone and you catch it with > no gap no thought just seeing and moving, > > In the martial arts this is known as 'mu shin'; it is a natural human > ability, though not 'dependable', in an actual conflict, until (after long > practice) one has gained control of emotions, particularly fear. Depending > on the circumstances and how often you experience it, and assuming that you > do not practice martial arts, it *might *indicate that your meditation > and mindfulness is starting to 'pay off'. > In stay at home parenting, this is called "Doing what needs doing." I've never tried martial arts except for a few fencing classes, but being the primary care giver to small children has a certain focusing effect on ones energies and attentions; it is more of an acting in the face of fear (and uncertainty, and criticism), not no fear. My meditation and mindfullness has no goal, so it can't very well pay off, tho it seems to make the days a tad more interesting. And this is an old story from before my Zen training started. When I started the training, I said my goal was to be a kinder parent. The kids grew up. I was kinder. My kids no longer drop ice cream, my current tasks are more along the lines of jig-saw puzzles and helping with homework and providing enough reference books to suit my sons voracious memory (and then having the energy to listen to 5000 interesting facts being read aloud)and enough exciting plot driven book to keep her reading (and also having the energy for rather more adult conversations about said books). And you know, keeping them from hitting each other or whatever in the never-ending strife. Plus programming, speaking of which I should see if my latest changes here are working - I love python. > RAF > > > >
