Mike,

If Australia had higher mountains than it does, then I might have visited there 
by now, but I have not, because it does not.  Alas!  ;-)

Its astronomical observatories are of course excellent, and famous, but I have 
not had to travel as far as Australia to find similar ones or better ones in 
Northern and Southern hemispheres.

I regret this, because some of my teachers and mentors in Astronomy have worked 
at Australian observatories, and I'd like to see the sights that they saw and 
walk on the same rock.

But the move in observational astronomy has been to go ever higher, and to ever 
drier sites.  Chile and Hawai'i are the outstanding sites on earth now.

Nonetheless, Perth may draw me there eventually as a tourist: I too have always 
felt drawn by it.

On the topic of Zen and Vipassana practices, I also feel they can help 
practitioners who are open to both teachings and both ways of practice.

BTW, I think the practice of Metta is a beautiful and rational one, and I also 
feel that Metta opens naturally to a Zen student when the student awakens.  
Metta then for such a fortunate Zen student is not an intentional practice, but 
a natural expression of our true nature and original human inheritance, and 
arises at the same time with Wisdom.  They are one, really: there's no two ways 
about it!  ;-)

The Vipassana teachers of my acquaintance as participants on Ch'an retreat to 
me seemed slow and dopey when it came to doing things off the cushion, such as 
work, and the exercises we all practiced ritually.  They frankly seemed 
uncoordinated and awkward, always impeding their own path, and as if moving 
through thick honey.  They seemed unable to be direct and hence quick.  This 
made them appear to be unhealthy, sick, or else drugged, and definitely 
unnatural.  I think this may be due to some self-imposed or tradition-imposed 
constancy of self-observation and unrelenting "noting", but I am not sure.  It 
certainly is not the state of Chan awakening, nor the expression or indication 
that they are even carrying out fundamental Chan practices as introduced and 
taught.  At every move, they seemed to squelch the freedom they might otherwise 
find or develop.  It hurt my heart to find them in a world of their own, 
through all the 7 or 8 days.

Pardon me going further, but I think their Samadhi was not an empty one, then, 
but suppose they were still doing things with "the mind" while all attention 
should have been on the task at hand (well, "should have" from the point of 
view of Zen teaching, on the Chan retreat we shared, Mike).

I'll get off this Hobby Horse, now, but to sum up, as you know, I value most 
the actuality of awakening, and one's awakening, and cannot *as* much value the 
various states or stages of meditation, such as they are, and even as enabling 
as they are.  It's instead that "Zen awakening", or simply "awakening" which 
seems to make all the difference.  It's not an end or a goal, but it enables 
true practice to begin, really just to begin, and finally begin.

It's the SUDDEN regaining of everything freshly once we lose everything 
artificial, and it happens faster than an eye-blink, and lasts, we hope, a long 
time.  But as the expression goes, "Awaken in the morning, and die happily in 
the evening".  It's that good.  ;-)  And that much without attachments.

We need really good luck to awaken, though, and I think need to be really 
exhausted, and definitely at wits-end, and sunken-down; even the bliss of 
Samadhi covers it up, and samadhi must rip down its middle in a finger-snap, or 
a balloon-pop, and we're then simultaneously startled at the cessation, and 
look around suddenly, really free to move and free to do.  I recommend to 
everyone sticking with practice in order to experience this!, and to carry on 
living this way.

Yep!, I know that Subhana teaches both roads of Zen and Vipassana.

--Joe

> "mike"  wrote:
>
> Joe,
> 
> Funny you should say that. When I first looked into migrating to Australia, 
> back in '87, I was drawn to Perth even tho I knew nothing about it 
> (especially in comparison to the more famous cities of Sydney and Melbourne). 
> Turns out my instincts were correct - Perth is a wonderful place and Western 
> Australia has a really strong Aboriginal culture, which I find fascinating.
> 
> I think Zen and Vipassana could learn so much from each other, and I feel 
> fortunate to be in a position in time and place to be exposed to both. I can 
> honestly say I have no 'allegiance' to either. For me, Zen lacks the emphasis 
> on Loving Kindness and compassion that Vipassana has (metta practice). I also 
> think Zen doesn't put as much import on samadhi/the jhanas, which is a shame 
> because they allow the practiser to experience a dimension of meditation that 
> can't be comprehended without them. 
> 
> I agree with you that Zen does a lot more regarding taking it off the mat. 
> Indeed, that's what I love about practicing Zen - to see the miraculous in 
> the ordinary.
>



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