Zendervish, You asked if there were any differences between illusion and dharma, and I answered (offered my opinion) 'no'. So what's your point?
...Bill! --- In [email protected], "salik888" <novelidea8@...> wrote: > > taking The Great Heart Wisdom Sutra into consideration, isn't form and > emptiness the same, thus illusion would not be less or more -- I am > realistically! > > /\ > > zendervish > > --- In [email protected], "Bill!" <BillSmart@> wrote: > > > > Zendervish, > > > > No, there are absolutely no intrinsic (could say 'essential') differences. > > These are all just words for different flavors of the same thing which I > > call illusion. > > > > ...Bill! > > > > --- In [email protected], "salik888" <novelidea8@> wrote: > > > > > > Are there any differences intrinsically between illusions (spiritual, > > > mystical) and Dharma? > > > > > > /\ > > > > > > zendervish > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Bill!" <BillSmart@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Joe and Salik, > > > > > > > > I'm sorry to have to disagree with you but 'mystical' does NOT mean > > > > "direct, unmitigated experience". It is in fact just the opposite of > > > > that. It is a mistaken belief that some illusory thoughts or feelings > > > > you've had were a real experience. > > > > > > > > Here is the definition of 'mystical' from Merriam-Webster Online: > > > > > > > > a : having a spiritual meaning or reality that is neither apparent to > > > > the senses nor obvious to the intelligence <the mystical food of the > > > > sacrament> > > > > b : involving or having the nature of an individual's direct subjective > > > > communion with God or ultimate reality <the mystical experience of the > > > > Inner Light> > > > > > > > > Neither 'spiritual' or 'mystical' have any place in zen practice, > > > > except as examples of illusions. > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Joe" <desert_woodworker@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Salik, > > > > > > > > > > Mystical just means by direct, unmitigated, experience. > > > > > > > > > > It is not faith (nor ratiocination, nor speculation, nor Metaphysics). > > > > > > > > > > I think the best modern literature about Mysticism was written 108 > > > > > years ago, the number of beads on a Buddhist mala. By Evelyn > > > > > Underhill; William James; and Richard Bucke. > > > > > > > > > > --Joe > > > > > > > > > > PS Kim's title is a brilliant one. > > > > > > > > > > > "salik888" <novelidea8@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > The "subject line" refers to the book > > > > > > > > > > > > Ehei Dogen, Mystical Realist, Hee-Jin Kim > > > > > > > > > > > > Nevertheless, I would agree with you though, so how about that one! > > > > > > . . . Mystical is a word in our time that denotes something special > > > > > > . . . usually it has something to do with "spiritual but not > > > > > > religious." Or apologetics for certain Religions. > > > > > > > > > > > > Like the word esoteric . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > Enlightenment . . . how about that booby trap word? > > > > > > > > > > > > I am more from the school of "get your ass over there and sit down > > > > > > . . ." Or -- "don't!" > > > > > > > > > > > > Samey Samey . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, I am not big on the word myself . . . it has worn out its > > > > > > usefulness, if it had any to begin with. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
