Joe,

The Cleary translation is pretty much the same except the last response.  It 
is, "When it's cold, the cold kills you, when it's hot, the heat kills you."

The translation I used was from Jivacandra, a zen blogger from San Francisco.  
I don't know much about him but just wanted a version of the koan I could cut 
and paste.  His translation seemed to express the same message to me - and that 
is when realizing Buddha Nature you are just experiencing.  There is no cold, 
no heat - Just THIS!

...Bill!

--- In [email protected], "Joe" <desert_woodworker@...> wrote:
>
> Bill!,
> 
> It's nice.  Is that the Cleary? (transl.).
> 
> We practiced it in Tucson (seriously) with Pat Hawk Roshi, as:
> 
> "KILL yourself with heat and cold".
> 
> --Joe
> 
> > "Bill!" <BillSmart@> wrote:
> >
> > Joe,
> > 
> > The koan that's closest to what I think you want is Case 43 in THE BLUE 
> > CLIFF RECORD - Tung Shan's No Cold or Heat
> > 
> > "A monk asked Tung-shan, "When cold and heat come, how can we avoid them?"
> > 
> > Tung-shan said, "Why don't you go to the place where there is no cold and 
> > no heat?"
> > 
> > The monk said, "What is the place where there is no cold and no heat?"
> > 
> > Tung-shan replied, "When cold comes, cold completes the monk; when heat 
> > comes, heat totals the monk.""
> > 
> > ...Bill!
> > 
> > --- In [email protected], "Joe" <desert_woodworker@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Siska,
> > > 
> > > You are one stubborn Bodhisattva.
> > > 
> > > Tasting warm or cold is "knowing" by the tongue.  Are you the tongue?
> > > 
> > > All other knowings are fraudulent.  Two-plus-two?  Has no taste at all.  
> > > It doesn't even stink.
> > > 
> > > --Joe
> > > 
> > > PS  Classic Zen story may be a koan.  Let me look in Mumonkan.  It has to 
> > > do of course with drinking water and knowing for oneself whether it is 
> > > warm or cold.  Maybe Mumonkan Case One.  Let's both see.  Thanks if 
> > > you'll tell us a better translation than "know".  Anyway, "know" is jake 
> > > with me, and everything else is then a scaled-down "know", begging to be 
> > > called so.
>



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