Bill!, Joe, I was using the expression (with Siska) to express the idea that you'll know you've (unquestionably) experienced Buddha Nature the same way you know your iced-tea is cold when you sip it on a hot summer's day (paraphrasing the old story). There's nothing metaphysical about it. I think it's a bit silly (to be honest!) to talk about Buddha Nature not "knowing" if a drink is hot or cold. Buddha Nature is not some objective noun 'out here', but operates thru us. Hot and cold maybe relative, but you'll certainly know if your soup is hot if you drop it in your lap!
Mike --- In [email protected], "Bill!" <BillSmart@...> wrote: > > Joe, > > The Cleary translation is pretty much the same except the last response. It > is, "When it's cold, the cold kills you, when it's hot, the heat kills you." > > The translation I used was from Jivacandra, a zen blogger from San Francisco. > I don't know much about him but just wanted a version of the koan I could > cut and paste. His translation seemed to express the same message to me - > and that is when realizing Buddha Nature you are just experiencing. There is > no cold, no heat - Just THIS! > > ...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], "Joe" <desert_woodworker@> wrote: > > > > Bill!, > > > > It's nice. Is that the Cleary? (transl.). > > > > We practiced it in Tucson (seriously) with Pat Hawk Roshi, as: > > > > "KILL yourself with heat and cold". > > > > --Joe > > > > > "Bill!" <BillSmart@> wrote: > > > > > > Joe, > > > > > > The koan that's closest to what I think you want is Case 43 in THE BLUE > > > CLIFF RECORD - Tung Shan's No Cold or Heat > > > > > > "A monk asked Tung-shan, "When cold and heat come, how can we avoid them?" > > > > > > Tung-shan said, "Why don't you go to the place where there is no cold and > > > no heat?" > > > > > > The monk said, "What is the place where there is no cold and no heat?" > > > > > > Tung-shan replied, "When cold comes, cold completes the monk; when heat > > > comes, heat totals the monk."" > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Joe" <desert_woodworker@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Siska, > > > > > > > > You are one stubborn Bodhisattva. > > > > > > > > Tasting warm or cold is "knowing" by the tongue. Are you the tongue? > > > > > > > > All other knowings are fraudulent. Two-plus-two? Has no taste at all. > > > > It doesn't even stink. > > > > > > > > --Joe > > > > > > > > PS Classic Zen story may be a koan. Let me look in Mumonkan. It has > > > > to do of course with drinking water and knowing for oneself whether it > > > > is warm or cold. Maybe Mumonkan Case One. Let's both see. Thanks if > > > > you'll tell us a better translation than "know". Anyway, "know" is > > > > jake with me, and everything else is then a scaled-down "know", begging > > > > to be called so. > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
