Mike, Thanks for your efforts in providing me this description and link.
On one hand this sounds to me not much different than the usual concept of cause-and-effect except it is more inclusive. It doesn't just ascribe a causal relationship between two events, or a combination of events to another event. It's more like the 'Indira's Web' concept where everything is related to everything else. On the other hand in at least Thich Nhat Hanh's explanation there is more of an emphasis on co-arising rather than asynchronous, sequential events. This would at least solve the problem from a zen perspective of how to resolve the concept of cause-and-effect without requiring multiple, asynchronous events - although it still requires multiple events which in itself is problematic. I wasn't impressed with the 3 stick, then 2 stick, then all fall down scenario. That requires multiple, asynchronous events and even ascribes causation to only the removal of 1 stick - not the fluttering of butterfly wings in Brazil. I did note with interest however the interchangeability of two terms which at first glance seem opposites: 'dependent arising' and independent co-arising'. At closer look they are saying the same thing. Cool! My bottom line on teachings like this is that they are conceptual and that to me rings a big alarm that blares out 'illusory'. They are at best an attempt to rationalize experience by superimposing a logical structure around it as an explanation. As I've said before there's nothing inherently wrong with doing that UNTIL you forget these are just concepts and therefore illusory. When you forget that you are subject to forming attachments to them that are likely to cause suffering when they dissolve into emptiness as do all illusions. In this specific case (dependent arising/independent co-arising) you could even call dogma - Buddhist dogma. They are part of the official belief system and doctrine held by Buddhism; and Buddhism is a religion which at best is built upon the experience of Gautama Buddha which we now call Buddha Nature, and at worst is just a collection of superstitious mumbo-jumbo. Buddha Nature is not dependent upon and cannot be explained, understood or enhanced by learning such things as this; and most importantly you cannot realize Buddha Nature by studying these or any other concepts. Best case is study of this sort could encourage you to want to realize Buddha Nature, but worst case it will fill your head with more concepts which will either make you think you already know about Buddha Nature or even lead you in the wrong direction. You must experience Buddha Nature - and the best way I know to do that is zazen. ...Bill! --- In [email protected], uerusuboyo@... wrote: > > Bill!, <br/><br/>There are many different terms for the same thing. The most > well known in the Buddhist lexicon is 'dependent origination', but equally > you might come across 'dependent arising', inter pendent co-arising, > 'conditioned arising' and other such terms. They just mean that everything > arises in dependence on a multitude of conditions and causes. <br/><br/>As I > said before, a simple contemplation of your own life will point to the truth > of this. It's also not just the relationship of human interaction to > phenomena. For example, why does a harvest flourish one year but not the next > if not because of conditions? <br/><br/>This is the complementary to the > notion of emptiness, too (that nothing exists as a singular, independent > entity). <br/><br/>I copied the passage below from wiki because it explains > the meaning quite well:<br/><br/>"The general or universal definition of > pratityasamutpada (or "dependent origination" or "dependent arising" or > "interdependent co-arising") is that everything arises in dependence upon > multiple causes and conditions; nothing exists as a singular, independent > entity.[b][c] A traditional example used in Buddhist texts is of three sticks > standing upright and leaning against each other and supporting each other. If > one stick is taken away, the other two will fall to the ground. Thich Nhat > Hanh explains:[9]<br/>Pratitya samutpada is sometimes called the teaching of > cause and effect, but that can be misleading, because we usually think of > cause and effect as separate entities, with cause always preceding effect, > and one cause leading to one effect. According to the teaching of > Interdependent Co-Arising, cause and effect co-arise (samutpada) and > everything is a result of multiple causes and conditions... In the sutras, > this image is given: "Three cut reeds can stand only by leaning on one > another. If you take one away, the other two will fall." For a table to > exist, we > need wood, a carpenter, time, skillfulness, and many other causes. And each > of these causes needs other causes to be. The wood needs the forest, the > sunshine, the rain, and so on. The carpenter needs his parents, breakfast, > fresh air, and so on. And each of those things, in turn, has to be brought > about by other causes and conditions. If we continue to look in this way, > we'll see that nothing has been left out. Everything in the cosmos has come > together to bring us this table. Looking deeply at the sunshine, the leaves > of the tree, and the clouds, we can see the table. The one can be seen in the > all, and the all can be seen in the one. One cause is never enough to bring > about an effect. A cause must, at the same time, be an effect, and every > effect must also be the cause of something else. Cause and effect inter-are. > The idea of first and only cause, something that does not itself need a > cause, cannot be applied.[d]"<br/><br/>Sent from Yahoo! Mail for > iPhone > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! 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