Joe and William,

The engine of biological evolution is mutation.  It is not gradual but sudden.

I can't comment on 'spiritual evolution' because I believe spirituality to be 
illusory.  It's meaningless to me to try to define how illusions wax and wane.

...Bill!

--- In [email protected], William Rintala <brintala@...> wrote:
>
> Catastophists beleive that the mutations currently exist, that the 
> catastrophic 
> event needs only to occur to eliminate those least fit to survive, allowing 
> the 
> mutation to dominate.  Take virology.  We now have created bacteria such 
> as MRSA, VRE and CRE
> who exist because they survived their Holocaust. This evolutionary 
> development 
> has happened has appened within a human lifetime. I didn't cite Auschwitz as 
> a 
> specific event but to pose the possiblity of a Global Holocaust, say the 
> rapid 
> spread of a disease with no known cure.  Something catastrophic, say for 
> instance the deaths of 3/4 of life on the planet. Something that affects us 
> all. 
> What of Spiritual Evolution then?  I'm really just arguing on Merle's side. 
>  
> Firstly that Evolution, as a process, is gradual but that Evolutionary change 
> on 
> a broad scale is sudden.  Secondly, what does it take to get people to drop 
> all 
> of their conventional, rote, belief systems and question things like the 
> existence of God and the meaning of Life?  Can't we equate this last part 
> to an 
> Evolutionary process?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Joe <desert_woodworker@...>
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Tue, April 9, 2013 1:24:02 PM
> Subject: [Zen] Re: evolving consciousness
> 
>   
> William,
> 
> Of course, they both operate. Gradualism is slower. But catastrophes are just 
> major changes thrown into the conditions that Gradualism works within.
> 
> But for either, Selection is at play. And so remains the speed-limit.
> 
> Maybe the speed of light will be exceeded at some time by some means. And 
> maybe 
> it's possible in the working of catastrophism to incur a mutation or niche by 
> wiping out a whole region or class of people, or a species. We might as well 
> admit the future possibility of it. I'm an Asteroid-Scientist, and can point 
> to 
> instances of major sudden change that affected the entire biosphere.
> 
> Between incidents of dramatic catastrophe, Gradualism continues to do all the 
> work. Does it not?
> 
> A change in thought or feeling occasioned by Auschwitz is not evolution of 
> the 
> kind we are talking about. It's not even "spiritual" evolution, in the very 
> vaguest sense. If it has caused evolution, we certainly don't see it working, 
> even in Israel or Palestine. Anyway, I don't think so, there. It should never 
> have been expected. 
> 
> 
> Selection is very slow. Not because that's better. But because that's how 
> Selection works.
> 
> And it's not happening with consciousness, therefore, at a speed such that we 
> will ever live to see any changes.
> 
> But, ...that we can uncover our true inherent Human inheritance is still the 
> greatest single miracle and discovery of the past 2500 years, to my mind. The 
> uncovering of it happens suddenly; not gradually. ;-) Although a good basis 
> of 
> methodical and regular practice always precedes and supports the awakening. 
> The 
> results of all the evolution by selection are in the safe-deposit box; the 
> key 
> to open it is merely to slough-off the metal hide. And this we can do. There 
> is 
> no future time better than now in which to do this.
> 
> --Joe
> 
> > William Rintala <brintala@> wrote:
> >
> > Joe:
> > 
> > There are 2 schools of thought regarding Evolution the Gradualists, which 
> > you 
> > espouse, and the Catastrophists, who believe that evolution is precipitated 
> > by 
> 
> > catastrophic change, e.g. the extinction of the dinosaurs.  Could a 
> > similar 
> > catatrophic change occur in our spiritual evolution. Auschwitz, Buchenwald, 
> > Hiroshima, Nagasaki on a Global scale?  
> > 
> > Auschwitz
>




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