Merle, Your post below is a little hard for me to understand (as are many of your posts) but I'll try to parse it piece by piece.
Buddha Nature is direct experience BEFORE your thinking kicks in and creates dualism like good and bad as Shakespeare said. You do have to experience it for yourself. I cannot experience it for you and you cannot experience it by reading or hearing someone else talk about it. It's like swimming. You can read all you want about it but until you jump in the pool you haven't actually swum. The reading might prepare you to swim, but reading is not swimming. I can't say for sure whether or not you have ever experienced Buddha Nature but I'd be very, very surprised if you haven't. I think you experienced Buddha Nature when you were very, very young before you developed a sense of self. I also think you've experienced Buddha Nature when you 'lose your self' in an activity - like sports, or making love, or maybe for you when you paint. That's all it is. It's not a big mystery or anything. You are able to experience Buddha Nature when you sit (zazen) because you 'lose your self' by shutting down your intellect - your thinking. When all your thinking is gone, all the dualistic ideas, thoughts, concepts and identification with self - what is left is Buddha Nature - Just THIS! The reason I asked Bob about his remark about shutting down or cutting off the senses is because that is not what I experience. My senses are still intact, and in fact are the only thing that is still intact. I experience directly, without judgement and without turning the experience into a concept (perception). That's it. Read the original commentaries on the 10 Ox Herding Pictures and see if you can't recognize there what I am saying here. ...Bill! --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@...> wrote: > > > > Â bill!! so tell me in plain english..buddha nature...i must experience it > for myself..how do you know i have not?...cos i don't talk the talk you talk > and walk the walk you walk?..merle > Â > Merle, > > So...how do you think you can experience Buddha Nature? By reading about it? > By memorizing lists? > > I don't want you to believe me. I want you to experience Buddha Nature for > yourself. And to do that you'll have to sit (zazen)...or at least that's the > best way I know for you to do that. > > ...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > > ÃÂ joe... i actually do not object..there are the 10 commandments in the > > bible for instance... so be it buddhism... > > > > bullshit you can experience the buddha nature just by sitting.. > > > > i don't believe you bill!... > > > > merle > > > > > > ÃÂ > > Joe, > > > > I object. > > > > Any characterizations like The Eightfold Path, the Five (or Eight or Ten) > > Precepts, the Ten Commandments, the Four Bodhisattva Vows, Three French > > Hens, Two Turtle Doves or a single Partridge in a Pear tree are just > > gobbledygook to me. > > > > Who took a Path and divided it up into eight parts? WTF? > > > > Just sit (zazen) and experience Buddha Nature. Then you won't need all > > these lists someone else made up. You'll know for yourself. > > > > ...Bill! > > > > --- In [email protected], "Joe" <desert_woodworker@> wrote: > > > > > > Mike, > > > > > > Well, you've given me something to think about, there. Thanks. > > > > > > Because, in fact, my sometime-claim here has been that the Ten Grave > > > Precepts are the behavior of a Buddha, an awakened person. Not the Noble > > > Eightfold Path. But, err-r, let me THINK about that. > > > > > > I'd say it is probably a description of the behavior of a Buddha, also -- > > > and I have never thought in this way before, so THANKS! -- AND, as you > > > say here, Mike, it is a prescription for the undoing of suffering caused > > > by attachment. In this way, I feel that the "NEP" is more prescriptive > > > and normative than the Precepts are, and that they are and were meant to > > > be. I still feel that the Precepts are more descriptive, even though > > > they may at first reading(s) look like a list of "Thou Shalt not" > > > injunctions. > > > > > > But the Noble Eightfold Path as a description of the behavior of a > > > Buddha... . That's GOOD. Well, I'm not sure why not! Does anybody > > > object? > > > > > > I'll sleep on it, too, and see how it looks in the morning light. > > > > > > --Joe > > > > > > > uerusuboyo@ wrote: > > > > > > > > Although Joe is correct that the NEP describes the action of a Buddha, > > > > it is also useful as a guide to ethical and wise living. > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! 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